friend of fauxtographer

[emf]

EMF –  I’m certainly not white noise. I’m more of like a din, I think. LOL. The thing is, no one disagrees with my assessment of her work. No one disagrees with the idea that her friend doesn’t listen to her b/c he probably doesn’t respect her work. No one disagrees that the real issue here is her work, not her friends. They just disagree with my approach. I’m fine with that.

Well ok, I actually looked up white noise after I said it and part of the definition was ‘soothing’ – so I guess I’ll agree with you on that score! I get that you are from a much more cut throat world, however my background is teaching and often quite damaged kids – therefore, my approach has had to be tread light to an extent.  If I’d of crit’ed my students the way we used to get crits I’d of got chairs thrown at me or worse! . In my experience if you trash people too much, especially without sufficient explanation or clarification, they simply switch off.

[stef]

The september issue [of Vogue] is beautiful though. They really shine on that issue. I really wish they would put that kind of effort into every issue.

September is the most important issue of the year, for the fall fashions. They sell way, way more pages of advertisements, too. I would bet it’s 2x the size of the january issue. The cost of advertising is insanity for that month.

 

You can basically say that the september issue is really good, and not even say the year. It’s that consistent.

 

Hrm, I didn’t even think about that… I need to go buy that issue. As soon as I can forklift it into my car.

[ebi]

did you see the film on Vogue and Anna Wintour – The September Issue? It made me fall in love with Grace Coddington. Great film!

[ebi]

If I’d of crit’ed my students the way we used to get crits I’d of got chairs thrown at me or worse! . In my experience if you trash people too much, especially without sufficient explanation or clarification, they simply switch off.

And it’s been my experience that the harsher the critique, the more the impact. My approach may not be ideal for most, but works for the few that have what it takes. I’m not really talking about a “cut-throat” industry, per se. This is not Wall Street. It’s a lot different. You have to be keenly aware of what people way and what they actually mean when they say it. The best critique you can hope to get, especially when showing your book, is “we’ve decided to go in a different direction”. Unless you want to pay a grand to have a few 30 minute sessions with leading art directors, creative directors and photo editors at Photo Plus. But the cost is very high for not much pay off. Plus the people coming through here are not anywhere near that level. They think they have good photos, but they have no idea what good is. They aren’t paying attention to the details and they aren’t really trying. They just think it’s neat that you can push a button and make money for it.

I’ll admit that I’ve probably been a little too hard on Maryah. It’s not like she’s trying to sell her work. But at the same time she came in here kind of gawking at her friend for bad photography when she has nothing better to show herself.

[emf]

And it’s been my experience that the harsher the critique, the more the impact. My approach may not be ideal for most, but works for the few that have what it takes.

My personal experience as an artist is that harsh crits are better too. When I was in art school the scariest professor we had would even make the guys cry in the middle of crits – man you’d be a nervous wreck after a run in with this guy. He was also the best, and when he did, albeit very rarely, if ever, say something was good,  jeez – you’d be on cloud nine for a week! I don’t have any issue with harsh critique – that’s why I, and I’m sure many others, are here. My issue is when it’s not explained or clear. Fine, say it’s shit – but then say why, how can it be improved. I don’t get how you can say a whole concept is shit. Concepts are just starting points and it’s up to the artist to make something interesting from that concept or not.

 

 

 

[ebi]

I don’t get how you can say a whole concept is shit. Concepts are just starting points and it’s up to the artist to make something interesting from that concept or not.

Exactly…and if the starting point is so horribly off, you probably aren’t going to end up anywhere good. In this specific circumstance, with Maryah, I didn’t feel there was anything of substance to critique. It is a waste of time to offer advice on how to make these images better when she needs to get new ideas. I don’t know what those ideas are or should be. She needs to figure that out for herself. My answer is no, these do not work. It’s not appropriate for me to offer concepts or ideas. That is her responsibility. If she is incapable of that then she has more problems than just some dude ripping her apart online.

Again, if this was the real world (and I wholeheartedly believe that we should be preparing students like Maryah for the real world) she would get at most a “sorry you are not what we are looking for” or “we decided to go in a different direction”. Which is just a nicer way to say we don’t like your photos.

[emf]

Exactly…and if the starting point is so horribly off, you probably aren’t going to end up anywhere good. In this specific circumstance, with Maryah, I didn’t feel there was anything of substance to critique. It is a waste of time to offer advice on how to make these images better when she needs to get new ideas. I don’t know what those ideas are or should be. She needs to figure that out for herself. My answer is no, these do not work. It’s not appropriate for me to offer concepts or ideas. That is her responsibility. If she is incapable of that then she has more problems than just some dude ripping her apart online.

Again, if this was the real world (and I wholeheartedly believe that we should be preparing students like Maryah for the real world) she would get at most a “sorry you are not what we are looking for” or “we decided to go in a different direction”. Which is just a nicer way to say we don’t like your photos.

I think it depends where the concepts are coming from. My point is this; the ability to come up with original concepts is something that often develops over time. Not always, sometimes it never happens, but more often than not students go through a process of at first producing work that is fraught with cliches. We have ALL done this, even you, I am sure. At this point if everyone who did this got told to do something else, there would be no artists.

If it’s an experienced artist, photographer, whoever, producing hackneyed work, then, yes – I agree, they’re not good at their profession.  However if it’s a student, then I think you have to give them a bit of leeway to work through the cliches. Most artists will tell you they produced some cringeworthy stuff along the way, while they were finding their ‘voice’. This is normal.

I absolutely agree students should be prepared for the real world – but not by shattering their self esteem in the process.

 

[ebi]

At this point if everyone who did this got told to do something else, there would be no artists.

Actually, the goal is to weed out those who shouldn’t be calling themselves artists in the first place. So people who are really committed would let the negative criticism get to them. They do it b/c they love it. Most fauxtogs are looking for any easy way to make some money. And what could be easier than setting a camera to Program mode and hitting a button?

If it’s an experienced artist, photographer, whoever, producing hackneyed work, then, yes – I agree, they’re not good at their profession. However if it’s a student, then I think you have to give them a bit of leeway to work through the cliches. Most artists will tell you they produced some cringeworthy stuff along the way, while they were finding their ‘voice’. This is normal.

And I think you’ll find that I’ve been pretty consistent in my approach with students and people labeling themselves as professional (using the definition of anyone who accepts money for their services). Maryah was a bit of an exception b/c she came in here talking shit about someone she considers a friend, whining about not being taken seriously by him. That annoyed me, so I felt she needed to be put in her place. It was a tad harsh, I agree.

I absolutely agree students should be prepared for the real world – but not by shattering their self esteem in the process.

Shattering self esteem is a great way to prepare them for the real world. Especially if they pursue a career in this field.

[Bill]

Maryah, your friend [ZMP] needs to do everyone, including himself, a favor.  Learn to edit some photos or put the camera down.

It’s fine if you are not good at editing or cannot do it well, there are 3rd party vendors that will do the post for you [for a fee of course], but you have t give them something to work with.

This one I saw, among many others, https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=475755059145064&set=a.475754825811754.1073741834.394103650643539&type=3&theater

The noise is way off the chart for being acceptable, it really does a disservice to the model.  At first, it looked as if she had facial hair with all that noise, ugh!!!

The others I saw of the model Arthur, he really needs to learn proper posing techniques and above all use a flash for fill.

Any idiot can use downloaded actions in PS or the RAW presets in LR, but you have to realize that applying the action or preset to the entire image really does not make the image better.

 

We all make mistakes and do dumb things, but I would not post all my “Bad” pictures unless it was for a training class of what not to do.

Your friend is, sadly a fauxtog, and he will probably be a fauxtog until he can learn to listen and open himself up for criticism.

[Author]

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