August 19, 2013 at 2:53 am #12062
Nesgran: at least you could actually pinpoint the flaws you were speaking of, and thank you for the critique, ill work on it.
and my speed light set up is very minimal, i only have a hot-shoe mount flash that can travel with me, and 2 small 800 watt strobes for home. also I do have a few 5-in-1 reflectors just not the extra people required to hold them for me when I am not at school.August 19, 2013 at 3:13 am #12063
and Nesgran I do have other Pocahontas shots, however, the original one posted was the one my teacher liked so when it comes down to grades, what he says goes!
here are 2 others that were shot
another “crouching” pic, different location, different leg position. her costume inhibited movement a bit so kneeling wasn’t exactly possible without flashing her crotch (which is why she has the loin cloth thing)August 19, 2013 at 6:31 am #12069iliketagMember
God DAMNIT Ebi. What have I told you?! If I could find you, I’d whack you with a newspaper like a misbehaving puppy! Stop piddling on the floor!
Nesgran is correct – never shoot a model squatting. I’ve only ever seen one that didn’t look horrendous and it had to do with the fact that her knee was brought down like she was getting ready to kneel. The second shot from your most recent post is an improvement, but having her knee facing forward is not flattering. It gives it a two dimensional look and enlarges it – making her look heavier than she is. She is squatting too low to make is look like you caught something natural. She’s rigid and unbalanced, perhaps because she’s on a hill. You acknowledge that you’re still learning, which is great – don’t stop that. Ever. For now, I would recommend just ignoring his requests for critique and if it comes down to it, simply explain that based on his array of work, you clearly don’t have the same aesthetics and therefore are not suited for offering him advice anymore.
He may get pissy but you should focus on developing your craft and leave him to his. He may be the sort who has to have a brutal awakening with an upset client before adjusting his outlook.
As for Nes, I do agree with EMF. Some people can see all the technical aspects, they can pixel peep and review work without necessarily being outstanding themselves. It definitely means more coming from a quality pro though – with that, I agree with you. However, I act as an analyst for a computer game that I am super awesome at strategy and tactics with… but fail mechanically and would never make it to a pro player level. Players still respect my advice and strategies though – even the pros I’ve worked with. Not exactly the same, but you get the idea.August 19, 2013 at 7:08 am #12070emfMember
I agree iliketag, it does mean much more coming from the pro’s, of course – it’s pretty damn invaluable. However it still needs to be communicated effectively – otherwise it’s meaningless and no one is going to learn anything. In fact, I think it just creates a fuck you attitude and turns fauxs even more faux.August 19, 2013 at 10:18 pm #12093
you don’t need critique because your work is shit. You need criticism. Start over, do something else. I cannot tell you how to make it better because it’s so bad. And you also need to stop listening to your professor because those other options were better than the first.
Contrary to popular belief you’ll learn more out of school than you will in school. And it’s probably better to listen to people who are outside and very far removed from the classroom. But I don’t see anything that shows that you have even the slightest bit of talent or aptitude for this field. It is not criticism to tell you that you need to research and find out what makes a good photograph or at the very least make your own judgements about what you think is good or bad in the pages of magazines. You can learn a lot that way. Right now, you show a complete lack of a sense of taste. Pocahontas? Día de los Muertos makeup? A graveyard? Seriously, a fucking graveyard? See, its the thought process that needs to change. That is a ground up change.
People in here tend to get a little pissed off at my comments, my lack of critique, and my harsh criticism. But I tend to get pissed off at people who bring nothing to the table. You miss the mark, you need to start over because there is nothing to critique. Other people can be nice about the poses and the light, but the poses and the light and everything else mean shit if the idea is not good.
When I see photos that are interesting to begin with, I can critique from there. But if you are happy with the blind leading the blind critiques and the sound of crickets from everyone else, then good luck with that.August 20, 2013 at 12:53 am #12099
“at the very least make your own judgements about what you think is good or bad in the pages of magazines. You can learn a lot that way. Right now, you show a complete lack of a sense of taste. Pocahontas? Día de los Muertos makeup? A graveyard? Seriously, a fucking graveyard? See, its the thought process that needs to change.”
” light and everything else mean shit if the idea is not good.”
Well, slap my ass and call me Sally! YES a fucking graveyard! I actually find cemeteries to be quite calming and beautiful
Charlotte Bibby for XO Magazine
Then again for her own Life of the Loveless Collection
looks like a professional fashion photographer even likes shooting in “a fucking graveyard!”
And shit what do you know?! I found some Caterinas as well
Lucyna DanUta Bakowska
and wouldn’t you know it; I found Pocahontas as well, crouching no less (or “taking a shit” as you so eloquently put it)
in fact Jason Ell did an entire Disney Princess series for Harrods Magazine
so are you saying all these people lack a complete sense of taste as well? Because I’m pretty sure i just found (through a simple google search) 3 separate examples of industry professionals shooting Pocahontas, “Dia de Los Muertos” Makeup (its called a sugar skull or a Caterina for future reference), and seriously a fucking graveyard!
now in no way am I comparing my work to these works, i know i am nowhere near that good. but i’m using them as proof that the ideas aren’t shit.August 20, 2013 at 1:56 am #12104
no they are just proof that they aren’t your original ideas. The photos are still shit. And so are the concepts. So you are just copying other peoples bad ideas, just because you think they look cool? They don’t look great. None of them do. The only photographer in this group that has some decent work is the girl with the graveyard photos, but those graveyard photos are not it. I couldn’t care less about how you feel about graveyards. Its tired and trite. Bad idea, do something else…or don’t. I’m just telling you that you won’t get anywhere shooting shit that is stupid. Shoot some good stuff first, then you can shoot all the bad you want. Just ask Annie Liebovitz: http://www.vogue.com/magazine/article/storm-troupers-hurricane-sandy-service-men-and-women/#1August 20, 2013 at 1:59 am #12105
BTW, Annie also shot Disney character ads for Disney that are equally as horrendous.August 20, 2013 at 2:21 am #12108stefModerator
Shoot some good stuff first, then you can shoot all the bad you want. Just ask Annie Liebovitz
Hah, that stuff was awesome! In a strange, disjoint way. But I shoot a bit of fashion, and that was kind of funny to see models scattered around the area like mannequins that got lost in the hurricane.
I’m a fan of graveyards, but not a fan of photography in them unless it’s a really, really good concept. Playing with concepts, even if it’s trite, is still valuable. Duplicating images you like, even if they’re cliche, will still teach you stuff. Valuable stuff, like how to duplicate someone’s lighting and posing. That’s something you can take out of the graveyard and apply anywhere later.
And yeah, the first thing I thought of was Pocahontas taking a dump. There are ways to make squats look better, like a feeling of motion or getting rid of the “squat” look by leaning back on something or dropping a knee, or having a REASON to squat. If there’s no reason, the mind assumes you’re squatting for the reason you used this morning.August 20, 2013 at 2:22 am #12109
well Ebi, you’re a dick and quite rude and it seems as if most of the other people in these forums share that opinion of you, some even thinking you’re just a troll since you talk a big game, and cut people down for fun but have yet to post a single thing you have ever done. I’m done defending myself to you… I’ve just about run out of troll food anyway.August 20, 2013 at 2:30 am #12111
and.. i didn’t copy anyones ideas, no my ideas aren’t original nothing really is anymore, but my version of the idea is true to me. and the links i posted earlier i never saw before tonight, i google searched them for proof that the ideas have been done and published before.August 20, 2013 at 2:41 am #12113emfMember
Ebi, you are just becoming white noise now.August 21, 2013 at 11:34 pm #12175IHFMember
Maryah, Im kind of in the same boat right now. One of my very close friends has been sucked into faux land and is making some serious mistakes, along with going into debt taking this whole “I’m going pro” thing on. In my case, she doesn’t really want my critique or advice. She even asks me in such a way that makes it clear she doesn’t want it. It’s a very uncomfortable position to be in. I try not to even bring photography into our conversations anymore. It’s difficult to accomplish, but I try. I only ofer advice when its clearly asked for. Which isn’t often anymore since I never tell her what she wants to hear. Other than telling her that no one is going to strike her dead if she puts the camera in P until she learns her settings better, while she was struggling to take snaps shots of a friend’s going away party (she had only had her camera for a few months and these pictures were too important to her) she liked that advice. lol. I don’t encourage her to buy more gear, and don’t lead her to easy fixes like actions and whatnot, like what she reads on the net and on her “nice” critiquing site she joined. She thinks it’s all about getting everything she doesn’t have and not about learning with what she already does have. I had no idea she was even thinking of going pro. Absolutely none. I knew she was having lots of fun learning, and was super happy with having a new hobby, but… Come to find out, shes already really good and just needs more gear, and an online institute degree to step up her game…sigh… People really want to buy her photography, but it’s just not affordable, and she just needs to learn how to market it better. There’s more, but I think you get the picture.
If he’s not listening to your advice/critique, then he doesn’t want it. Is he really asking you for it or is there a chance you are misinterpreting? Because my friend stopped asking quite a while ago, and I’m following her cue. Our friendship is way too important to me to risk it. She already knows my opinion and advice on the business side of things as well as how I work, think, set up, shoot, feel, etc etc. We talked in depth about all of it many many times starting way back even before she became a photographer a couple years ago, and there’s no use in repeating myself.
She may no longer respect my opinion because I am just an amateur with a lot more work ahead of me, and she feels she has grown beyond my level (she hasn’t. Take my word. I know I sound like a shit for saying it, but… its bad people…its pretty darn bad).
It may not even be about my advice at all, but more about how other people’s advice/criticism feels better and has more power than mine because of the way it makes her feel.
I say, if you have tried, and they aren’t listening, and if the friendship is important to you… time to step off a bit. Just be there for them when they fail without any “I told you sos”. It’s a shame that all we can do is sit back and watch things unfold for them, and cringe, but it’s better than losing someone important to you.August 21, 2013 at 11:39 pm #12176IHFMember
Yes, that was my attempt to get back on topic lolAugust 22, 2013 at 3:32 am #12177
Stef – I’m more of a fan of Leibovitz’s portraiture work. I find the vogue spreads to be horribly inappropriate for the time. Vogue is so completely out of touch with the real world. They should stick to fashion and leave everything else to the rest of us. The story they did on “discovering brooklyn” was a dated joke. The september issue is beautiful though. They really shine on that issue. I really wish they would put that kind of effort into every issue.
IHF – we were never off topic. This has been and always will be about Maryah. Had she not posted her work, there would be no discussion about it. Further down in the thread, she even asked for critique. I just chose to put the emphasis on her instead of the friend b/c the friend is inconsequential. Her issues with him seem more like bait for a discussion about her work.
EMF – I’m certainly not white noise. I’m more of like a din, I think. LOL. The thing is, no one disagrees with my assessment of her work. No one disagrees with the idea that her friend doesn’t listen to her b/c he probably doesn’t respect her work. No one disagrees that the real issue here is her work, not her friends. They just disagree with my approach. I’m fine with that.
Maryah – Hey now, watch it with the language. You don’t see me calling you names. But I understand the hurt and frustration. After my first college critique, I went home and drank nearly an entire bottle of whiskey. Then vomited everywhere and swore off alcohol for the rest of my life. That lasted about two weeks. Slowly, over time, I learned to separate my personal feelings from my work. It still hurts a little bit, but you’ve got to suck it up. You’ve no idea what it is like in the real world. You’ve no idea how absolutely brutal silence is.
But looking back throughout the years of comments on my work, the ones that stuck out to me the most were the people who were most brutally honest. The ones that pulled no punches. The compliments and what you would call “constructive criticisms” did nothing for me. It’s better to be straight and honest. If you can’t take that, then you can’t hack it. You seem to be leaning towards fashion so its highly unlikely that you will fare very well if this is where you want to go with your career.
Trolls don’t go to this length. Trolls name call and try to antagonize. I’m simply stating my opinion about your work and it’s not making you feel very good. You are making more out of it than you should. Treat it as an opinion like the others. I don’t really care if you listen to me or not. At this point you are just a waste of time b/c you can’t take the criticism.
As for posting what I’ve done…that is not why I’m here.
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