"Strictly" Natural Light Photographers

[monicab28]

Well you might tell NASA, Boeing, Amherst Media and a few other top companies that Allison isn’t a very good photographer.   She’s also a rep for Hensel Lights so someone must think she knows what she’s talking about!   She’s been making money doing full time photography for 30 years, so I think my money is pretty well spent.  I’d rather learn from someone with her track record than someone that’s barely making money in the industry.  She teaches because she loves to teach.  What she’s teaching me goes along pretty well with how Monte Zucker taught and I’m pretty sure he knew what he was doing.

[ebi]

I’m sure that 30 years ago she was very busy. I think now she makes her money by endorsing products, writing books and doing seminars. I guarantee she’s not working now b/c her style is stuck back in the 80’s.

I’m just giving you my honest opinion. You can take it for whatever it’s worth. But you also came in here spouting nonsense. So I felt like it needed to be said.

[monicab28]

Geez, who pissed in your Post Toasties??!  Do you treat everyone so rudely or do you just save it for certain people?!?  I can guarantee she’s working now because she’s going to NYC next week to work on a shoot, and she’s doing some kind of commercial shoot in a few weeks that she asked me if I wanted to go to with her.  So, please, don’t spout off nonsense that you don’t know about.   I stand by what I said….if you have to wait for certain times of day to get certain colors or certain lighting, then yes, the light is controlling you.  You can use gobos, black flags, buildings or whatever to block light, but you really cannot control the sunlight.  You can’t move it and you can’t turn it off.  If you’re in the middle of bright sunny field, you can block the sun, but you can’t make it go away.   Maybe I don’t know as much as you do, but at least I’m doing something about it by learning.  Even if Allison’s work is dated back to the 40’s, lighting doesn’t change. You still need to know how to broad light, short light, butterfly light etc…and that hasn’t changed in 30 years.  Thanks so much for making a new person feel welcome.  I came here to learn, but I guess I’ll be looking elsewhere…

[fstopper89]

Shooting at certain times of the day is because light is optimal at those times. I’d never intentionally schedule an outdoor session during mid-day.

[fstopper89]

I like Allison’s work. There’s nothing 80’s about it except one or two of her studio shots that I thought were weird. One had a fabric backdrop that had visible creases. However one or two not-so-great images does not make her a fauxtog or even near it. She seems to know how to handle and control her lighting.

I wasn’t super crazy about her website design. I think it needs a little update, but it’s not distractingly horrible.

[monicab28]

Browneyedgirl89, I know that you choose those times of day because of the color of light, but sometimes you have  no choice about shooting mid-day (weddings for one thing), so you need to know how to shoot under all conditions.  That’s what I’m trying to learn.

I do agree with you about her website!  Lol…  I don’t think she even really markets for sessions anymore because she’s too busy with commercial projects and teaching.

[fstopper89]

Mainly due to shadows the light produces. But yes, weddings can be a challenge. I’ve done a few where we had some harsh sun. The last wedding the ceremony was outdoors. The day started out cloudy and got intermittently sunny during the ceremony. A few shots at imperative moments have some harsh lighting patterns, but I don’t think there was anything I could have done. One was as the groom turned around to see his bride meeting him at the altar. I did use the speedlite even outdoors for some shots. He’s got sun on his face, but when I edited it I just blended the harsh line a little.

[ebi]

@Monica

I think you are misinterpreting my tone. I’m not trying to be rude. I’m just being sincerely honest. Her work isn’t relevant. A 2008 cover of Almost Famous magazine, does not a successful photographer make. Sorry. The advertising section of her website is more like brochure art. Stock photography, at best. Her tearsheet section is filled with catalog clippings for weekly circulars. Just having a section called “Glamour” just screams 1993. Also, I’m not seeing any of her NASA or Boeing stuff. Care to point me in the right direction…or have you not seen it either? Hensel lights are actually a lower level brand. Profoto and Broncolor are the big boys. So i’m not really impressed by that. It’s like being the spokesperson for Jack In The Box instead of McDonalds.

It looks as though she is a struggling photographer who will take anything she can get. That is why her work spans a very large gamut from still life to fashion to studio session work. I would say that she is probably more successful as an instructor than she ever was as a photographer. If her work isn’t old – if that is newer work on her website – then she is very behind the times in terms of what clients expect for lighting and also the fashion (see all the ripped jeans teens shots). I’d say that the majority of the stuff on her website is probably about 10 years old or older. You only want work that old in your portfolio if it’s iconic. There is nothing iconic in this body of work. If she is such a prominent photographer, where is all the prominent work? Again, I wasn’t saying she was faux. I was just saying her work isn’t impressive and I wouldn’t fork over money to take a class from her. You may find great value in what she has to offer. Hopefully you will get some basic information from it and move on and do better than she does. Part of being a photographer is thinking critically and objectively. It takes some time to learn, but I imagine you’ll feel the same way I do when you’ve got more experience.

I stand by what I said….if you have to wait for certain times of day to get certain colors or certain lighting, then yes, the light is controlling you.

What if your subject steps out of the light when you are using flash? Does that mean that the model is controlling you? There are always variables in photography. It’s knowing when to use what that makes all the difference. It’s not about one being better than the other. I shoot both natural light and strobe. I don’t have a preference for either one. It just depends on the job. If it’s more of an editorial food shoot, it’s probably going to be natural light. If I have to shoot a portrait of an interior designer in his office but his office is in a closet (which it never would be), then I’m probably going to have to bounce a strobe off a wall to make it look like a beautifully natural lit room.

BEG makes some good points about the times of day that are best to shoot. At high noon, the light isn’t great. But it’s a great time to move into the shade and do a more indirect light shots. On real commercial shoots, where time is money, that is what happens. On fashion shoots that are typically outside on locations, it’s a great time to take lunch, have a swim and recharge for a strong finish until sunset.

You can use gobos, black flags, buildings or whatever to block light, but you really cannot control the sunlight. You can’t move it and you can’t turn it off.

yeah, actually, I can control the light. I’ve got 1/2 stop – 2 stop diffusion on a 6×6 scrim jim, so I can control the power. I cannot move the sun but can change the diffusion to white or silver and bounce light at my subject. I can take 2 black flags and channel an even indirect light source into a direct dramatic, moody light. I cannot turn the light off, per se, but why would I want to? I need light or all I have is a black image, no?

If you’re in the middle of bright sunny field, you can block the sun, but you can’t make it go away.

Again, why would I want it to go away. At the most I’m going to want to diffuse it. But I don’t want to get rid of it.

Even if Allison’s work is dated back to the 40′s, lighting doesn’t change.

Really? Go back and look at photos from every decade from the 1940’s to now and tell me lighting hasn’t changed. It changes, frequently. And if you don’t think much has changed from just the 80’s to now, then I suggest you pick a magazine at random and just look at the covers from year to year for 30 years and you’ll see just how much it changes.

I came here to learn, but I guess I’ll be looking elsewhere…

That’s entirely up to you, but you’ll learn nothing by getting defensive and storming off in a huff. Sorry, you were wrong. Get used to it. You’ll be wrong most of your life.

[monicab28]

Wow!  Now you’re accusing her of lying?!  Yes, she worked for NASA, Boeing and Phillip Morris.  I would imagine it’s not on her website because she can’t post pictures that she took as an employee of NASA and Boeing on her personal website!   And yes, she did actually show me a few images from her NASA days.

I’m not going to go round and round with you.  Light does control you because it does force you to use different ways to control the light.   If it’s straight up noon, you are forced to work in the shadows, or choose a different shutter speed or aperture, or use a gobo or diffuser.

I’m not a newbie. I’ve been doing this for 10 years and have a nice little business.  I wanted to up my game a bit and really learn about lighting instead of just guessing at it and only be able to shoot at certain times of the day.  I see it as adding a new tool to my toolbox.  I don’t see a lot of photographers using lighting correctly because there’s an awful lot of flat lighting out there.  I went to someone that I know knows how to use light to my advantage.  At least I’m doing something to make my photography better.

I can take criticism, but what I can’t take is someone being rude.

[ebi]

Are you just fucking skipping over the informative tips and looking for the attacks? Again you are mistaking my tone on here. I’m being very matter of fact. Not rude. I’m not calling her names, I’m not calling you names. Obviously you can’t take criticism, because I’m not even really criticizing you, I’m criticizing her and YOU are taking offense. So I find it hard to believe that you could take that same level of criticism of your own work. Most people have developed a thicker skin than that after 10 years. Perhaps you just work in a market where no one knows any better. I don’t have that luxury.

You may not be new to this, but you are acting like it. Or maybe you are acting like a seasoned professional who has plateaued. Which doesn’t make any sense since you said yourself that you wanted to learn more about lighting.

You seem to have your mind made up. I’m not trying to convince you of anything regarding light. I’m simply TELLING you HOW it is. But feel free to just continue to stick your head in the sand and ignore it. I hope you don’t thought b/c there is a world of possibilities out there that I don’t think you can even comprehend yet.

[ebi]

BTW, I’m not accusing her of lying. I’m accusing you of assuming too much of a person without having proof.

I’m not going to go round and round with you. Light does control you because it does force you to use different ways to control the light. If it’s straight up noon, you are forced to work in the shadows, or choose a different shutter speed or aperture, or use a gobo or diffuser.

See you say that but then you continue to argue. So i’ll just continue to feed you:

So what you are saying is that you overpower daylight when you shoot outside? Because the only way that the sun won’t have an effect on the pictures you take is if you eliminate the sun when shooting outside. I guess I don’t fully understand what type of photography you do. If it’s studio portrait sessions, then strobe makes sense, but if you are shooting outside, then what is wrong with finding the light that is right for you? No one forces anyone to shoot in the shadows. They do it because it looks beautiful. There are different types of light for different occasion. I don’t shoot in the direct sunlight very much at all. Everything is usually intentionally indirect. That’s just my style I suppose.

Anyways, look, this isn’t really about fighting here. It’s about discussion. I’ve learned things from people in here. I think people have learned things from me as well. So, just put your nun-chucks away for a few minutes, sit down, I’ll pour you a drink and we can just talk like civil adults. What’s your poison?

[Bill]

I’ll try one of those Tamitillo Mary’s but normally I drink Caucasians, if your offering, lol

[Author]

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