Starting a business…

[Thomas]

This may have been brought up elsewhere but I’m starting here.
I’ve been studying photography for around 5 years in a more serious sense and I’ve been urged by my fiance to start trying to make money from it. I realised she was right, it was time to try for a second income on top of both of our full time day jobs. I’m not a fauxtog, I know how to use my equipment, I know what I’m doing and people genuinely like most of the work I produce. I have been really angry at myself if I have had a bad session and have spent a lot of time correcting mistakes in later shoots, trying to get things just right. I learn something new every day and I’m seriously obsessed with photography. It’s a true passion as I’m sure it is with many of you.

 

So formalities out of the way I want you all to imagine I’m the worlds greatest photographer but have no idea what constitutes me starting a “legitimate business”. I live in the UK so obviously the laws, procedures here will differ somewhat from the US but please help if you can. I have looked this up many times but can’t find any definitive advice.

I know I will need Public Liability Insurance.
I have already registered with HMRC (the government run tax collection system in the UK, maybe IRS in the US?) for self employment, so that if/when I start making money, I can pay the correct taxes on it.
I don’t believe I need to register for PAYE as I already pay national insurance through my full time job. I will call HMRC about this to check.

I’m building a website. (currently I’m only on facebook but have not been charging)
I have copied contract examples and amended for my needs but does anyone know much about legal contracts? How precise does legal speak have to be in these things? Have any of you pros/semi pros been to solicitors or sought legal advice for this kind of thing or did you just write your own to the best of your abilities and that will suffice?

All of that said, what else do I need to do? I’m not a Limited company so don’t need to register with Companies House (Corporation in the US).

 

Can anyone tell me what they did when they started up as self employed in this business please.

 

Many thanks,

Tom

[dont.care]

In my opinion, success is a game of chance.. If, before you’ve got a major client base and you decide to go in full swing–By quitting your job and do it full time.. Full time for you will be 4 hours of sleep at night and 20 hours of working, marketing your brand until you build your base and you can sleep easier at night not having to worry about bills so much. You’ll life will be consumed, as is the same with every business..

However, if you’ve got a steady stream of clients (you’ve said you’re semi-pro). You’ll really not have much of a problem, I don’t suspect.

I got started by chance, it fell into my lap.. I was doing random photos for people until I got my first gig from a local biz that just so happens to be in a local tourist area and heavily trafficked, and it just kinda took off from there because that business essentially pimped me out to other folks.. I had a small amount of insurance, don’t _have_ to have a business license here and didn’t have a registered name at that point although I did claim my jobs on my taxes, because at that point I actually got $$ back from the Fed.. Now I’m at the point that I have to pay taxes, so they’ll really come after me if I don’t pay ’em.. I was basically freelancing and knew the business owners pretty good so it was helpful, now I do maybe 10-15 jobs a week and live well enough.. Which is in all reality, a cake walk.. Most people spend 8 – 10 hours a day breaking their backs working their asses off in an endless loop.. I make in 1 day what most of those guys make in a week and before I did this I was in the army, and before that I did those back breaking jobs and I didn’t want to. I’m only 28 and several years ago I decided I wasn’t doing that shit anymore..

Point is:

a) Knowing people is obviously a plus

b) You have to want it more than what you got now (which is dangerous and can leave you broken)

c) You’ll be working your ass off until you get stable

d) You spend most of your money paying your government/new equipment/maintenance/common bills until you get stable (and then it usually gets worse/but balances out eventually)

e) you have to be a damn accountant

f) you have to have an understanding counterpart

etc.

 

[dont.care]

Guess I should mention, confidence and motivation is really all you need,.. If you want it bad enough, it’ll happen that’s not to say what you may or may not have to sacrifice though.. Businesses and relationships are all in the same, it takes sacrifice to make it happen.. 😉

[Thomas]

@ don.care

When I say “starting a business” I mean just that. I don’t have a steady stream of clients and I definitely do not intend to quit my 37 hour a week civil servant job, it’s secure and pays the bills to keep the roof over my head. I’m 27 so not far off your age either. I’m not currently semi pro, I would LIKE to be semi pro. This would technically be correct (as discussed in the other post, lol) as I would hopefully be making extra money, not all of it. Semi profession so to speak.

That said, your advice, or real life take, seems spot on to me. I don’t expect things to be easy. The Mrs already gets a bit peeved when I come home from a shoot and then sit at the PC for the rest of the day editing and social networking my images. And she is the one who wants me to do it….women eh. Like most people, they don’t understand how much work is involved, hahaha.

 

This probably would make more sense to someone living in the UK as I said the laws and red tape will be different. But thanks all the same for your post, much appreciated  :o)

[Loke]

Even in the U.S. there are even differences between states lol..but I”ll do my best…..I’ve been doing side photography since 2008.

Legal stuff:

Not sure about the UK and business entities…here it’s either you’re a sole proprietorship, partnership, llc, s corp or c corp….

Then you have to get a fictitious business name — I don’t know about other states in the U.S. but in California, this is done a the local level (city you live in) –if you use your name you do not have to register, but if you use another one you have to register, publish and pay an annual tax…..

With the above entities (federal ), the LLC/Corp each have to pay 800.00/annual tax regardless if you make money or not…..sooooo I don’t even suggest doing that until you are bringing in income , or have another job where you can pay that tax every year…but again, this is  for the U.S. I don’t know how it works there….that, in addition to whatever state taxes might incur for seller’s permits, etc.

Insurance is down..so that’s good…

what else?

oh contracts and stuff….since I’m  a photojournalist, I am an NPPA (nppa.org) member so it’s given me a lot of great resources……..NPPA has a great calculator to figure out I’m sure other photographers know about it…it’s the CODB calculator  to help with figuring out your rates and you can still access it without being a member..just google it…. where you can get great info on writing up contracts, go to to the ASMP.org  (American Society of Media Photographers) and look at their business resources guides which will give you tutorials on contracts and other useful info…..you might have to adjust for UK law, but I imagine they are similar…

Finally, as for web, I have a friend that uses:  http://photobiz.com…..get everything in one place if you don’t want to do your own.

I am a web designer so I do my own web sites and I’m cheap 😉 . Hope that helps, and good luck!! Above all else, marketing marketing marketing….and good customer service.

 

[Loke]

sorry not federal but state annual tax for doing business in that state. and not all the states here charge it….so again, applicable to U.S………thought process off..lol. Any income you made would be taxed at the federal level of course and the amount would depend on your entity (pass-through, etc.)

[stef]

“I learn something new every day and I’m seriously obsessed with photography. It’s a true passion as I’m sure it is with many of you.”

Be prepared to lose some of that passion. When you turn it into a job, the worst part is realizing it’s no longer your job. Your new job becomes that of salesman, or figuring out how to apply that passion. You can’t just go shoot a bunch of stuff you want, and magically get paid for it.

You are, however, starting with a bit of an advantage. You have another job, so you can actually photograph what you want without starving. Maybe you can do a book or something. Just be aware, to some degree your new job will be a significant percentage of non-photography. As a 2nd job, you should make sure to keep your expenses separate and buy new equipment only with money you’ve made from photography. If nothing else, your passion will pay for itself that way, and you’ll have more money because you’re no longer spending anything from your day job.

 

I can meet my expenses. But the bulk of my photography business hasn’t involved me picking up a camera in 2 weeks. It’s been all sales, among other (non-paying) things.

 

[rookie35m]

I would lean towards Stef’s advice when thinking about starting a business. The technical stuff.. how to file your legal entity, licensing, contracts, setting up your books, etc is easily handled by research or getting professional counsel. The part where you are on your own is in marketing and sales. Every business is a success or fail based upon their ability to market and sell. That may make your average passionate photographer or hand-made jewelry maker cringe but it is reality. These are some tips I have learned to establish in 25 years of multiple start-up companies:

• Who is my market and is that market viable? In my case I live just outside of Philadelphia. I’m surrounded by affluent suburbs, pricy venues and dense population.  There is a very lucrative market for wedding shooters and portrait photography.

• Am I properly capitalized? With little-to-no client base, the investment in equipment and advertising comes out of pocket. The biggest death sentence for start-ups is running out of money. (having a full time job while starting a business can be grueling but gives you a safety net). I agree with the above that business and your personal money are completely separate. Its okay to seed a startup with personal capital but that should be treated like a loan from a bank and paid back on a timely and consistent basis. That leads into:

• How much do I charge? Whatever you think it costs to run a business, double or triple it. Just because you filled up the family SUV with gas doesn’t mean that the fuel you use driving to a gig isn’t a business expense. To know what to charge you have to know your overhead. Here is a good calculator to give you an idea of expenses and how they will parlay into your billing.   https://nppa.org/calculator

• Am I dedicated enough to this endeavor? Everyone starts with passion. That’s why you hang out a shingle that reads, “Photographer”. As Stef mentioned, that quickly fades into having to live and breath your business. Can you work eight hours per day at your full time job and come home and spend 4 hours editing, doing your books, making calls, scheduling, handling customer service, performing equipment maintenance, designing your next marketing piece, and updating social media? Add in the actual shoots and there goes the last bit of personal and family time you may have previously enjoyed. One has to look hard at reality and beyond the passion for holding a camera to answer that.

None of this is meant to scare. There are so many benefits to owning a successful business and making money by doing something you love. The problems arise when people put the benefits in front of common sense. A very good book to read is E Myth. It tells the story of how being a good technician has little to do with business success and outlines quite a few things many business owners do in their race to failing. Once you correct (or preclude) those mistakes, things start to make sense and you make money.   Good Luck!

 

[Thomas]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, some really helpful stuff in here and I have taken everything on board. I know its not going to be easy but as its a second endeavour on top of my day job Im hoping it wont be too bad. Im comitted to photography so even if a business doesnt work out ill continue to enjoy it as im doing at the moment 🙂

[CoastalTog]

You’re on the wrong board to be asking such questions. Try Fred Miranda.

[Moga]

If you seriously want to look into photography as a profession, I highly recommend working as a photo assistant for a while before you start your own business. It’s a much lower risk way to find out if you will have what it takes to make it on your own. Working with an established company is an easy way to learn the ins and outs of the business side, and honestly you will learn more in your first day working with a seasoned professional than you will with years of school or practicing with friends/relatives.

Look for local photographers whose work you admire and give them a call to see if they have any open positions. Be humble, be honest, and be proactive. You may have to work for free as an assistant or a 2nd/3rd shooter a few times, but that experience in itself will be worth it. By watching a professional work you’ll learn about how to handle clients, how to work with difficult shooting conditions, and get some familiarity with gear you probably can’t afford right now. Getting in with a good photographer also means you will have a mentor, someone who can give you honest and constructive criticism. Best of all you get to learn some of their trade secrets and you can learn from the mistakes they made when they started out.

Remember, as a business you are delivering a product and you must do so consistently. As a photographer that means getting photos that will make your clients happy even in the worst situations: like photographing a stressed out bride on her rainy wedding day, or getting a shot of a CEO in 5 minutes in his poorly lit factory, or shooting a piece of sushi in a cramped restaurant. It’s good to take on challenges and try new types and styles of photography, but never take on a job you’re not sure you can do.

[Author]

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