Query

[iliketag]

I am confident my work is better than that found on this site. That’s not the reason I’m posting in the thread.

My fear is that my “pricing” scale puts me in the category of fauxtographer. I have a lot of friends and family that ask me to take photos. I also get referred to friends of friends or friends of family, etc. I have gotten to the point where I know my work is worth at least paying for my time (and the countless hours spent editing). I’m seeing that this may be a gray area and I’m concerned I might be doing something wrong.
I claim the pay I make from the shoots I do as part of my taxable income. When I have a consultation with a prospective client (or client) at a coffee shop or wherever, I let them know what to expect up front. 

I don’t really have firm prices at the moment and I let clients know that I am working to build a portfolio. Sometimes the shoot is free (if they don’t expect every single shot or it’s just a fun friend practice shoot) and sometimes, when they want to get prints or when they want a disc or thumbdrive with a ton of edited shots, I charge a little bit because it takes so much more time. I work a full time day job to help support my hobby and I have taken some classes and save for workshops.

Is it wrong of me to charge when I am still learning and growing or is it ok to ask for compensation for the work I do?
If I have a shoot that the client is completely unsatisfied with the images, I give them their money back. I try really hard to please everyone but I know that that can be unrealistic.

Is it ok to tell someone “No” if they’re not the type of clients I want?
(That last one has a story behind it. My boss asked me to do her father’s engagement photos and I agreed. I produced about 30 edited imaged – my god the conditions were so bright and they wanted it at Garden of the Gods park on a Sunday at mid day… they were also both wearing white tops and blue jeans – even after extensive wardrobe emails back and forth… and they wanted the rocks in the background but no people. It was a rough day for me… then he called me one morning yelling at me that he wasn’t happy with any of the shots [I had run them past his daughter because she asked to see them and I had some on my tablet and she raved about them and said “I’ve never had such good shots of my dad!” so I thought he would like them…] so he wasn’t going to pay me and expected me to do the wedding for free. I apologized and said that if he wasn’t happy with the engagement shots he would probably not be happy with how I would shoot the wedding so I said I could not do that in confidence… Did I make a mistake?)

Thanks in advance!

 

[Worst Case Scenario]

Unless you are a world famous photographer you won’t have the luxury of choosing where and when you shoot a wedding. It’s always going to be so bright that everyone is squinting and has a shiny face. Or you’ll be in a candle lit church in the middle of winter.

Until you can handle every situation you probably shouldn’t be shooting weddings.

I’m pretty sure that your “pricing scale” can’t make you a fauxtog. I know many pros who will do a job for free if it’s something that they’ve always wanted to try of it will help them in the future.

 

[iliketag]

I guess I’m a little confused. Are you saying I should have shot their wedding for free even though they weren’t happy with what I gave them? I managed to get a lot of great shots but the busy-ness of the park made it difficult to get more. This man told me he wanted around 100 images to choose from because that was “normal”. I honestly didn’t think they would be happy with their photos if I shot their wedding because he didn’t like my style either.

[dont.care]

You should always have proper gear to combat excessive ambient light.. It’s done all the time.  Having large diffusion panels and having enough strobes makes it possible to shoot in the desert @ high noon.. They do it all the time.

You  were unprepared and accepted a job you essentially weren’t experienced enough to handle, or you’d know to tell them, No. People hire photographers because of experience; your experience is to tell them when, where, how, what, and why. If your “boss” tells you he wants a photo at 12pm, outside facing the sun–tell him no, then tell him why. It’s not his credibility he’s ruining, it’s yours. I make it a point in my contacts to let them know I am in charge of what they are hiring me to do. If anybodies going to fuck up my reputation, it’s going to be me, not them.

Sounds funny, but hiring someone to build a house–you don’t stand behind them telling them how to do their jobs, do you? Someone on that crew has been doing it for years, and knows exactly what goes where, why it works, and what happens if it isn’t done a certain way.. Sounds reasonable, doesn’t it?

My guess is, you probably aren’t very experienced in dealing with people and are a leisure shooter trying to make some extra $.. This will ruin you financially. It’s only a matter of time.

I’d suggest giving yourself daily challenges, i.e., have a friend simulate doing something you’d absolutely have to “get the shot”, within 3-4 shots.. Or lose. Make it a challenge by putting them in the sun where you have to kill harsh shadows and excessive ambient light.. Just things that induce stress but require precision..

I’ve done a 9 hour wedding for 800 bucks. (Family was not exactly well to do), but would’ve normally cost anywhere from 3-4 grand. Did I shit them on quality? no. did I shit them on # of photos? no. did i shit them on edits? no. did i cheat myself? probably. I think I actually lost money on this one.. However, price doesn’t really account for anything.  if you can afford to sometimes to do good deeds for people, it usually will pay you back 10fold.  Plus, it makes you feel pretty good to do things for people that would otherwise usually end up on this site after a wedding. 😉

Also, get to know the people before you take the job.. I take my potential clients out for coffee or dinner or whatever.. If you can’t figure out what kind of people they are within that time table, you don’t need to be dealing with people. You don’t want to get sued.

cya!

[dont.care]

http://fjwestcott.com/product-category/westcott/reflectors-and-scrims/scrim-jim/

Get ya some of these

[iliketag]

I should clarify:
When I was talking about that specific shoot, I’m not saying that I didn’t get any good shots from that day and they were honestly something that those I showed them too liked. Including his fiancee. The groom-to-be/my boss’s father, did not. I didn’t think it was fair for him to pay me if he wasn’t happy with them but I did let them know that the shots represented my style and if they didn’t like that aspect, then I was concerned about doing their wedding and that I probably shouldn’t be the one to capture their day.

I did use reflectors and open shade and I had a diffuser (part of the all in one reflector so not actually a real scrim) with an assistant helping to hold and place it. I was prepared for the light but I will be honest, I dreaded it a little. I was mostly trying to describe the setting as not ideal AND I even offered to do a second shoot at no cost because it was a little chilly and she wasn’t able to wear the dress she wanted. She hardly spoke English so that’s what he said about them wearing matching white button downs and jeans. I do struggle with the midday sun but I wouldn’t say I was entirely unprepared. I wanted to explore some beautiful hiking trails off to the sides of the main park but they told me they didn’t want to walk and asked me to only shoot in the main portion of the park.

My thought process was that it was a shoot for them so I should accommodate that. Was I wrong? I mean, I probably could have explained why the less crowded trails would have been better but I suppose I was a little intimidated. I extended a few coffee or barnes & noble meetings to him and his fiance but they told me they were busy and only Sunday would work but they just wanted to shoot. They said they didn’t need a consultation and would correspond with me via email. So I did, multiple emails about locations I had scouted around the park and what to wear (with links to blogs about outfit coordination and suggestions. Even colors. I really thought I had all my bases covered…

I suppose since maybe I’m used to working with younger couples I was nervous about working with an older one. The gentleman was very gruff and didn’t seem to like my posing so I asked for his suggestions and he wanted more, I’m not sure this is quite the right word but, rigid poses? I gave him a combination of both my poses and his in the final edits. They wanted them quickly so they could send out photos as save the dates but didn’t want them printed by the lab I use (SimplyColor) and just wanted to expose them at Costco. Because of the rush that’s another reason I offered a second shoot…

I mean, did I really screw this up? (More in the context of – did I make a huge mistake by telling them I might not be their flavor for the wedding?)

 

[iliketag]

Oh my gosh dont.care, I love that they have handles! I wish my reflector did. The diffuser with my all in one isn’t that sheer and it’s… floppy.

[Worst Case Scenario]

I love the way that you ( and me ) can read something on the net and get completely the wrong end of the stick.

Having read your newer posts it now sounds like you were well prepared for the light and tried your best to get them to move to a better location. In which case, YES you probably did the right thing in turning down their wedding.

Handling people comes with experience and learning when to turn down a job usually comes from bad experience.

[dont.care]

Iliketag: I apologize for misconstruing what you were saying..
You should never feel guilty or worry about turning down a potentially bad client.. If it usually feels bad, chances are it probably will be. Don’t be afraid to turn down money, ever. Whether it’s $5 or $5,000, (and generally the more $ it is, be more cautious of the person(s) who are attempting to hire you).. There was one photographer that did an awesome job, everyone praised the photos.. The client was a lawyer I believe, and tried to sue that person for damages+fees, but didn’t want to give the photos back.. Er something, I’ll link the video..

Here’s the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dUplt-hP3g&feature=g-all-u

Just something to stomach when your accepting jobs.
If you’re a professional photographer, you should have liability insurance.. You should also have a lawyer on retainer, or one you have easy access to.. You should also have contracts drawn up by a lawyer if you stand to gain more than $500.00..

Just saying! 😀 Stay alert!

[iliketag]

That was totally my fault for not being clear. I really included that last part of my initial post as an afterthought and really didn’t think about phrasing. I’m relieved to know that it’s not a mistake to turn down potential clients. While I would love to bring in business, there’s probably going to be times that it just won’t work out right. I appreciate all the advice. Thank you.

[JanJan]

I am in the same boat as you iliketag. I am still learning and I still call myself an aspiring photographer, but judging from the feedback of some experienced photographers, family and friends who have followed my work, as well some people on these forums, I feel that I’m at the point of receiving some compensation for my photography work. I also forgot to mention that I’ve had about 8 years of professional experience with Photoshop, thanks to my full-time job as a web/graphic designer, so there is the retouching aspect.

For the most part, most of my shoots have been trade for print (TFP) shoots with aspiring models or a couple of family and friends willing to model for me. I’ve had some paid work, but that’s mostly with people who I don’t really know. I do have an ad on Craig’s List offering my photography services for a small fee, but it’s mainly to expand my portfolio. It does get tiresome to take pictures of the same circle of people, you know!

I tell people that the reason why my rates are so low is because I am a new photographer that has only been doing this for less than a year. I also let them know that my equipment is limited and that I work best in natural lighting in the early mornings or late afternoons (“golden hours”). If they want a shoot in mid-afternoon when lighting is harsh, I do ask, and even plead, that we find areas with lots of shade. For example, I recently did a shoot for a pageant mom and her daughter and convinced her to push back the shooting time a couple hours because the lighting was harsh.

I’ve been charging a fee mainly to make sure that my time isn’t abused based on previous experiences. My first photo shoot ever was a TFP with a woman who was voted to appear on a calendar (the cover and the month of January) targeted towards the LGBT community. It was for an start-up clothing company targeted towards “tomboys.” (Here’s the chosen picture that was featured on the cover – http://www.photosbyanjanette.com/nik-behind-fence/). She really took advantage of my time. I think I spent about 10 hours of shooting time within a span of 3 non-consecutive days. On top of that, I spent hours retouching photos by slimming her down, tucking in bumps, and removing logos that ended up in the shot. To give any more evidence that she was abusing my time, she wanted to shoot at the gay festival in town and didn’t even offer to pay for admission (which was $10). I had to convince her to pay half of my admission, telling her that my husband took my ATM card and I only had $5. When the calendar was finished, she didn’t even bother to buy me a copy to keep as a portfolio!

In short, it IS okay to tell people no, but like what dont.care said, explain to them why. I’ve been asked to shoot weddings and events like surprise parties or engagement proposals and I’ve turned them ALL down. Living in Las Vegas, I’ve even turned down shooting at small weddings and elopements. (I’ve only recently done a bride and groom shoot, but that was done AFTER the ceremony because many chapels do not allow 3rd party photographers.) I explained to them that I don’t have the proper equipment or knowledge to capture a moment on the fly. Because these types of shoots do not allow any room for error, I know I can’t handle them.

 

 

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