Giving away photos

[nesgran]

Normally I wouldn’t consider giving away photos for free when it is to a commercial venture but I would appreciate your input on this one. About five years ago I helped start up a series of climbing competitions for the local universities after the series that existed before went under. It has been a success and the series continues on but I’m not involved as such in it any more since I graduated however a couple of weekends ago I offered up my services and shot a bit for the organisers and got about 1800 shots or so from the day. To them I happily give them all my photos and invest time in it (and some petrol money but that is peanuts in the grand scheme of things). It was a nice response and they now have some nice photos that were taken with better gear than a phone camera.

The climbing wall however asked if I wouldn’t mind sending along some photos for them to use for their website and facebook in return for photo credit. Normally I’d politely explain that my services wouldn’t be free, they are a business after all. In this case though I am considering it since getting good will towards the climbing competition might mean that they are happy to host one of the rounds next year. Getting walls to host has been difficult, being a student series the costs are kept to a bare minimum and renting out a climbing wall isn’t cheap. They have had a hard time finding places that A) are happy to do it and B) are cheap enough. This wall the last round was hosted at did it for the first time and it was good and the series looks like it would book the wall for next year as well. They are also a small business and climbing walls are difficult to make financially viable so it isn’t a big conglomerate that are cheap but rather I think they simply don’t know what a photographer actually costs.

I’ve nearly decided I will do it however I am open to suggestions. I was thinking of sending them three good photos with their logo in the frame giving them royalty free use of them.

I am a bit inconsistent though as one of the sponsors for prizes I have sent along about 200 shots with their logo in the frame that they can chose from, again royalty free. That company though is a bit more complicated as a friend of mine is the direct sales manager and I’ve previously gotten free stuff (about £800 worth of high end gear) in return for photos when they sponsored an expedition I went on. Admittedly I went with the guy who is now the manager though then he was working part time in their shop only. In this instance at least it was a bit more clear cut though as they are giving away stuff for free in return for material they can use for promotion and also being visible to their target group.

So, what are your thoughts? Should I give the wall any photos or should I try to get something out of it myself like some free entry or do you reckon that is pushing it a little? I don’t really like giving photos away to a business like that but then there is the whole goodwill side of it.

[cass335]

Just curious if you have seen any of the stuff that is going on with The Color Run?

http://fstoppers.com/the-color-run-counter-sues-college-photographer-after-he-asks-for-compensation-for-image

This type of stuff makes me think twice about giving away photos to businesses. I think you should request something for compensation.

 

 

[cameraclicker]

I have generally been opposed to the use of watermarks, but my view has been “evolving”.  A lot of that comes from involvement in non-commercial activities.  I still think watermarks are a waste of time and deface the photo when the photo is used on your own web page or on a social photography site.  Facebook removes EXIF data, which is probably illegal, so they are a good place to add a tasteful watermark if you are posting photos.  Adding a tasteful watermark is probably also a good idea if you are donating photos and want to ensure you receive recognition.  This would have addressed at least the credit issue in the Color Run situation.  In that case, if the watermark were removed, then it would be obvious they were attempting to do something outside any existing agreement.

There have been a few instances where an organization has attempted to limit use of an image due to a trademark in the image.  It may eventually come to a war requesting potential customers to avoid a product which includes a trademark.  That’s unfortunate.  So far, courts seem to have ruled in favour of the artist instead of the corporation.  Let’s hope that continues.  It is still expensive to go to court.

It is clear, you should have what they are allowed and not allowed to do, and any compensation, in writing before handing over any photos.  And if you want to get credit for the photos, then there should be a visible watermark.  Try to place watermarks where they are attractive, and still far enough into the photo that they cannot easily be cropped or covered by a border.

Compensation does not have to be cash.  It could be agreement to provide access (free tickets, backstage passes, etc.), or goods which the organization can get, or make, which is a wholesale cost to them but would be a retail value to you.  It could also be credit, which would be valuable if the credit resulted in some additional opportunity you would not get otherwise.

I expect the photographer in the Color Run situation will prevail since the US court system has already ruled First Amendment rights trump trademarks:  https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120613/18230119312/big-ruling-says-using-trademarks-artistic-works-can-be-protected-under-first-amendment.shtml

[nesgran]

In the end I gave them three lowish res photos with a subtle watermark

Here’s one of them: http://imgur.com/8oobo92

[nesgran]

I’ll leave this here, I now wish I’d done what the article says and sent them an invoice for the pics but with fees waived and total sum £0

http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2013/11/19/what_to_say_when_youre_asked_to_work_for_free.html

[EyeDocPhotog]

You did the right thing. Save the article’s good idea in that part of your memory reserved for “well, the next time I’ll…” I know it’s happened to me.

One thing I’ve learned as a doctor for 15 yrs – once a person receives PROFESSIONAL SERVICES for FREE, the uphill battle to convert them to a paying client / patient / customer is as difficult (and as fruitless) as trying to stop the tides. Like the ocean, they will keep coming back and back and back until you finally move on.

My professional career is REPLETE with these bad decisions over the years – my wife’s friends, my landlord’s daughter, the patient with one too many questions who stops me in the hall, the lady at the wedding who thought “He’s gonna see me for FREE” when I really said “give me a call, I’ll take a look at it Tuesday” – all these turned out to be BIG mistakes because I had no policy in place for these situations early on.

I actually lost my best friend from college 2ndary to one of these misunderstandings (saw him and his 2 family members professionally gratis ONE TIME and he took gross advantage of it for years before I TRIED to put a stop to it and the ensuing fight brought our friendship to an abrupt end).

 

[nesgran]

One thing I’ve learned as a doctor for 15 yrs – once a person receives PROFESSIONAL SERVICES for FREE, the uphill battle to convert them to a paying client / patient / customer is as difficult (and as fruitless) as trying to stop the tides. Like the ocean, they will keep coming back and back and back until you finally move on.

At least that is one advantage of being a doctor here (UK), I will never have to charge a patient. At least not until I work privately but that is entirely optional.

[EyeDocPhotog]

Are you a physician also, nesgram?

[nesgran]

yup

[Worst Case Scenario]

yup

Can you take a look at my shoulder?  : )

[Author]

Posts