Exposing the Sky

[iliketag]

Hello there!

I live in beautiful Colorado and often times, even when the light outside is softer in the evenings, there is a gorgeous blue sky overhead. I struggle with portraits and exposing the sky so severely that often I won’t let it into my shots. I want to be able to get it at times though and I’m afraid that when it comes to a properly exposed image for both foreground and background I honestly suck.

I am wondering though, do most people with that perfectly exposed background shoot composites or is it possible to get both properly exposed SOOC? Call me naive but when I look at great wedding shots by someone like Audrey Hannah Brooks (I will link to an example as soon as I figure out how…..) I want that. Desperately.

I’ve seen the hack to set up a replacement sky with masking but… I like my REAL sky.

Please help me. Am I doing something terribly wrong?

Thanks!

[IHF]

Bluer sky without photoshop:
Learn how to meter light.  lots of good tutorials out there.  Turn your lens away from the sun.  Photograph at a 90 to 120 degree angle from the sun. Avoid mid day sun, if you can.  If you have to shoot mid day, look at the horizon.  The sky will be bluest/darkest at the horizon line opposite of the sun’s location.  Use a polarizing filter.  Learn flash photography.

[Worst Case Scenario]

Take a spot meter reading of the sky, and a spot meter reading of the face. In order to get the sky looking blue, both these readings need to roughly the same. You can’t make the sky darker so you have to make your subject brighter.  The trick is getting a powerful enough flash gun and not making the subject look flashed / harsh / shiny.

[dstone81]

I agree with Worst Case scenario and IHF. This is something I have really had to work on. I am getting better now that I have learned how to use my meter.  I don’t do a lot of potrait work, but when I do it comes in handy knowing how to meter for situations like this and how to compensate for it.

[iliketag]

Thanks a lot everyone 🙂 I guess it’s going to take some time to get used to this. How effective is it to use fill flash in things like Bridal party shots? For large parties it just seems really tough to get everyone lit where it seems “just right”. I don’t encounter that often (as I’ve only shot for friends -usually just during the reception – but to get a couple extra fun group shots) but I am curious.

[Lauryn]

Hello fellow Coloradan!

I have the same issues, as you might guess. I usually either expose twice- one for sky and one for ground- or drop in a tonne of masks and adjustment filters in PS.
Also, in the mountains, it normally works well to just expose for the average, and adjust it later- the light isn’t normally as bad there, even at midday.

[dont.care]

Under expose the sky by 2 stops and use fill flash.

As for how effective it is? um.. it’s pretty effective.. spot meter, aim for the sky, under expose and lock your exposure, take your shot.. your cameras ETTL or CLS will deal with exposing for your subject.. depending on how bright it is, you may need multiple flash guns .. I like to use 2 600’s and an st-e3 with 2 24×24 soft boxes, works like a charm.. Groups? Just add speed lights :D..

Btw, when skies are dull and plain with no detail; masking it out (if done correctly) and replacing it isn’t bad. You just have to be careful to not have blown highlights otherwise your small details will suffer with a lot of clipped / rough edges and will look like shit. refine edge is your friend as well.. photoshop isn’t a bad thing you know.. It’s bad when you suck, but that’s neither here nor there..

I find it odd that you are even asking this being that you are a working profession photographer.  but anyway, enjoy.

[iliketag]

I don’t think that I advertised I was a professional. I have done shoots for friends or for favors but I am a LOT of learning away from launching a business. I need to save too so I can budget in things like insurance. I asked about exposing the sky because I have a really tough time trying to get both the foreground and the sky exposed just right. I have a pretty nice flash (a 580 EX II) and would like to get familiar with OCF but the reading I’ve done has been a little overwhelming. Do you find that third party flashes still work nicely for off camera? Maybe I can save a little before jumping into that part of it.

[miumiu2134]

I love sky photography, especially the deep blue clear ones!!! just so pure & beautiful

[cameraclicker]

Do you find that third party flashes still work nicely for off camera? Maybe I can save a little before jumping into that part of it.

Mine are all Canon.  I don’t need the aggravation of trying to get a third party flash to cooperate.  When the 600 EX RT came out I got 3 and the ST-E3 to control them off camera.  Before that I used a 580 and 430 with Pocketwizards.

I have been told Metz work well but have not verified that.  Canon’s latest arrangement is very convenient to work with.

[nesgran]

Nissin’s flashes are very similar in function to canon’s and in some ways better. The new ones have a USB port so firmware can be updated if canon change their flash software and the risk of problems is really quite small since nissin license the software from canon. In fact, both metz and nissin have been making flashes for far longer than canon has.

As for cheapo flashes like the yongnous, they work perfectly fine. They are well built and have decent specs but cost very little. If you aren’t a professional or have a big income yongnous would be the way to go I think. You can get yourself four manual flashes and a radio transmitter for less money than a single 600 EX. Nowhere near as convenient as the canon offering though. You can also get their flashes with TTL support and TTL transceivers so things will be properly exposed without too much hassle and it lets you adjust ratios between flash groups through the camera. There is little doubt in my mind that the canon system is better but it is also far, far more costly but can be relied on fully.

[iliketag]

Thanks so much for all the advice! I haven’t dabbled in ocf yet because it seems like there’s so much to it. Not because I’m afraid of it, just more overwhelmed. Did it take any of you very long to learn it? Other than jumping in, do you have any specificn resources you would recommend? I really want to learn how to make outdoor images in harsh light still look natural with fill flash. Maybe it’s just me, but sometimes outdoor/fill flash just looks funky (artificial?).

[cameraclicker]

http://www.speedlighter.ca/

http://www.strobist.blogspot.ca/

If you have the right body and flash, you don’t need anything else.  If not, then a second flash of the right kind, or a radio system.  You can also do it with a cord, but that really limits the distance and increases the aggravation factor.  If you go with a cord, you probably want a straight one instead of a spring.

Not as portable but more powerful, studio lights frequently come in a kit with a couple of lamps, stands, case, and a radio system.

Some people recommend continuous lamps instead of strobes for the studio.  I find they are so bright I can’t keep my eyes open without squinting, so I prefer strobes.  I have both, and use the continuous lamps for still life because it is easier to see shadows and highlights.  I think you can even get daylight balanced compact fluorescent bulbs at Home Depot, so you could just pick up a couple of bulbs and flood light housings to experiment with on the cheap.

 

[dont.care]

Don’t let it overwhelm you.. It’s not like it’s going to quit being your friend if you mess up! Get 3 lights and an ste3 ! (or an ste2, if you don’t mind optical) !!

 

[Thomas]

As cameraclicker has pointed out   Strobist is the best place to start learning. Go through the lighting 101 section first.

If you have a 580 then try doing this and then read the rest of my post if you want to.
Put the 580 on the camera and set to ETTL. Set camera to manual and spot metering (or equivalent to spot metering if, like me, you don’t have it  Boooooo   :o(   )
Set your shutter speed to 1/200th second which is usually Canons maximum flash to shutter sync speed. Set ISO to 100. Point the camera at that lovely blue sky above your model/subjects head and set the aperture until the meter shows that the sky is under exposed by 1-2 stops (for now). Then point camera at subject and fire away.  If the sky still looks too bright then under expose if more (i.e increase the aperture). If it really is a bright day and you have a high f/ number then that is what will limit the flash you will see lighting the subject so you need to be quite close sometimes. 
The other option is to use the high speed sync (HSS) option on the 580ex. Basically you can then increase the shutter speed above the 1/200th sync speed to reduce the exposure of the sky. The aperture can then be reduced which means you see more flash output working in the image.
(Shutter affects ambient, aperture affects flash and ambient, it’s a case of balncing the 2. ISO also affects the flash seen in the image).
This is all using the 580 on camera with ETTL but learning manual is also good fun and satisfying when you get it right, see below for more.

For any of you who already know this and more, I do understand there are a lot a varying factors when using these techniques but it’s a good starting point if you’re not sure what you are doing.

The one thing that  bugs me about a lot of the answers to these kinds of strobist queries is that people usually seem to suggest that you buy the most expensive flashes and triggers. YOU DON’T NEED THIS STUFF. I have 2 Canon 430 exII’s. The power difference between these and the 580s is such a small amount that it doesn’t justify the extra £200 here in the UK.  (430s about £195 for best deal,  580s about £395 best deal). I bought 2 Canon as I’m a brand whore but I bought them YEARS apart. I have also bought 2 used Centon FG105D  flash units branded for use with Nikon because they have built in optical slaves, i.e, they fire when they see another flash go off. I bought them off ebay and spent a grand total of £50 for the 2 units and they are just as good as the Canons but feel less well built. So I have 4 great flashes in my kit for £450 instead of spending more than that on 1 600ex. Yongnuo as Nesgran said, might also be an option for you. 

You don’t ‘NEED’ ETTL. If you are just starting out, ETTL can be a no go as it will cost more money in triggers. Don’t buy infa red, it’s not reliable. Don’t buy PWs, too expensive. There are a load of budget wireless controllers out there, ebay sell quite a few but I wanted a proper brand sold here in the UK. I started with £120 for one transmitter and receiver Seculine Twinlink T2D. They stopped making them before I had chance to buy more receivers so have changed to the Hahnel Combi TF system. Totally manual, cheap and TOTALLY RELIABLE. I spent £50 for one transmitter and receiver and additional receivers are £40 each. I only need 2 for my Canon flashes as I use the optical slaves on my Centons. The optical slaves have only failed me once in practice.

 

Anyway the point of my post is to get you to understand that you don’t need to spend $2000 on a strobist set up. Obviously ETTL, Pocket Wizards and 600ex units have some major advantages over cheaper models but if you learn your kit you can do a lot of things for a lot less money. I’m in no way disagreeing with anyone who has suggested expensive gear, I’m sure it’s fantastic, but if  iliketag can’t afford all the expensive stuff then they have somewhere else to start with the advice I have given.  Start with  1 flash unit, whether it’s Yongnuo or Canon, and try to get it of camera ASAP. If you do go for a different/older branded flash, you will need to make sure that the voltage wont fry your camera if placed onto the top hoptshoe. This is why it is sometimes safer to start with something specifically made for specific SLR manufacturer.

Hope some of that helps

[Author]

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