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urkiddingright…you’ve found some front page material there. I actually saw a few photos where she forgot to scream, “please like me”. I’d imagine it gets tiring after typing it so many times. Again, definitely some real “winners” on that page. Maybe her skills will develop and maybe not. She sure has nowhere to go but up.

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Oh fstopper89…where oh where do you find these?
I love the “about” stating, “My goal is to provide quality photos…”. Well, that is a great goal. Any idea of when you’ll get there? At least the prices are in line with the quality. Wonderful examples of “awkward”, https://www.facebook.com/PreciousLovePhotography2.0/photos/a.497845990355628.1073741832.495835707223323/497846753688885/?type=3&theater
along with so many wonderful oof gems.

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Nothing at all funny about the ad. Because, the only people who think “gear doesn’t matter” are those who have not held a high end camera. What people ought to be saying is, “it’s only part of the equation”. Certainly a 5D3 is useless to someone who has no training or talent while someone who does will certainly outperform them with a 40D.
In any case, I most certainly want my second shooters to use the same camera that I do, and that’s the 5D3 (at this moment anyway). I want output and consistency as I don’t need to spend extra time processing output from some other camera. I also have an expectation of the output and do not want to be processing images from a 10D. Gear does matter. If it did not, Canon would never sell anything over their Rebel line. I don’t follow the other brands but again, the same follows. Along with the body, there are lenses and flashes that come into play.
As far as getting used to another brand, I guess it’s possible. YMMV but for me it would take quite some time to get used to Nikon’s backward lenses and weird button placement.
Again, I see nothing wrong with asking for someone who is familiar with the gear so that there are no mistakes made or time wasted by someone unfamiliar with it.

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I’m sure she may be a fan or just of the religious connotations. It’s a mouthful though if she ever adds a .com to it. Thank goodness for bookmarks.

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You’re welcome, thenegativeone. I hope it all helps in some way.
And I hope I didn’t come off as too arrogant with my “I say no to seconds or assistants with no training”. I hope people did get the impression, and I do, say yes to shadowing. I’ve actually had a few (from my local college and university), shadow for the day and decide wedding photography wasn’t for them. It can be an eye-opener. Anyway, as I said before, hone up on the skills you have and need as much as possible. Become comfortable with people and comfortable with conducting people. And above all, have confidence in your abilities. Always be confident and ensure everyone on the day sees your confidence. It always gives me a chuckle when a couple comes to meet me for the first time, and tells me “I don’t want to look posed or be told what to do and want candids”. Without fail, honestly, five seconds after arriving at the formals location, the bride will look at me and ask, “where do you want us and what do you want us to do?”. You really are the conductor for an orchestra. Even without asking, everyone will be looking to you for direction (not necessarily the literal meaning but they do look to you as the “one in charge”), and should you for a minute falter, they will lose confidence in your photos and that will show in those photos. Yes, that’s bad. So, confidence. And should your confidence falter slightly, bury it. Take a breath, adjust the camera settings, take the “bad” shot where after setting up the bridal party you see it doesn’t quite work so they don’t know it doesn’t and move ’em all again for the shot you really had in mind. Never let on that something did not go to plan. As far as people know, every breath you took was part of your big plan for the day. Never stumble, stagger or mumble. Always smile and be friendly. It’s a happy day after all and for the most part, everyone there wants to be there and are happy that the couple is getting married. Work the happiness and it’ll permeate you and you’ll be a little more relaxed too and more able to lead them all to wonderful photos.

And…Thomas…what a great story. How similar to me in that I was never fond of the “you can’t go back and do it again” along with so many people to conduct. I was trained, I knew what to do and how to do it but for some stupid reason I can no longer fathom because it was so long ago, I was intimidated. Until the first time I finally said yes and I can’t understand why I didn’t start sooner. It’s not a career for everyone but I enjoy each and every wedding.

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My question is how do they come up with names like TheJoshuaTreePhotography1?

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Same-sex weddings are pretty much the same. You simply have to go into it treating them as two people in love, which is really the same regardless of the sex of the couple involved as this of course applies to all weddings. But rather than thinking “bride and groom”, you think “couple in love” and it, at least for me, allows your brain to look at the couple as a couple and allows me to “get past” some of the typical shots I’d do if I had a male/female couple. Again, for me at least, as I see the couple (even though they are groom/groom or bride/bride), as two people in love, that helps me to adjust my day to what will work for them, leaving out (usually but again not always), poses like dips. You might actually be surprised as to how many “typical” shots still work, depending upon the couple. And as with any couple, you will always have to adapt to what will work for them. Some ladies will both have wedding dresses, an other times one will be in a suit and sometimes both. This can, but not always of course, lead to a dominant figure and you can alter some shots accordingly. Personally, I love the bride/bride weddings as the brides are always my favourite to work with. A bride with her dress and flowers always makes for a wonderful shot so two is just naturally twice as great. For the gents, it’s the same sans the dresses. And I actually find that in general, two gents are easier to work with and are more at ease than groom/bride. Oh, and then there is the bridal party. So yes, you’ll have to be prepared for a change there at times. Rather than some ladies and gents, you may find all ladies or all gents. Sounds intimidating but really, that just leaves out a few “typical” shots but can open up others. Are there favs you like to do with the ladies, or with the gents? Now you can do more because you don’t have to split your time and that sort of thing.

In all, it’s not really different and very much like your very first wedding. I saw your post on the other thread and yes, we were probably all petrified and sweated half our body weight on our first wedding day. It’s new and different (you know what I mean though, not odd but just different from the usual experience is all) but after the first, you’ll see it’s all great and you’ll probably be looking forward to more. I know I do. Because for me, I’ve always seen the couple as just two people in love and come whatever happens on the day, it all boils down to two people in love and everything around them is just icing on the cake.

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I can’t talk for other wedding photographers but I too flat out say “no” to anyone wanting to second shoot or assist. First of all, anyone shooting at my wedding reflects on my business. As soon as you point a camera, you are working for me and represent me. “Learning” second shooters always say, “I’ll stay far back and not get in the way” but eagerness for the next shot invariably leads to them getting more and more intrusive and possibly interacting with the couple and guests. At the least, you may take their attention from me and that’s a huge no-no. And then, you’ll have to realize (at least in the country where I live), that any shot you take is mine. You may not use them for a portfolio unless I give the ok. And that’s what a lot of photographers won’t like. It’s bad enough setting up a beautiful shot and having mom or aunt Sue shoot over your shoulder and proclaim they “got the shot” (not that it happens to me as I don’t allow family and friends to shadow me), but many photographers don’t like working hard during the day and before it (actually working hard to sign the couple up) and seeing the day on someone else’s site as “your” wedding.
Then there is the “I’ll carry your stuff”. Well, there is more to it than just lugging gear. You’ll have to set up the gear and set it up where I need it. Do you know that? Of course not because you’re new to the job. It’s not a criticism, just the way it is. So it’s of little help to carry some umbrellas and assorted gear. Anyway, I have (usually) little time to do my job. Or at least, many times less time than I’d like but I get it done because I have reliable staff that knows their job and I don’t have to second guess what they are doing. It just gets done. I’ve done formals in as little as 15 minutes and you’d think I had 2 hours. It’s because we know what we are doing. Having someone who has never seen the “behind the scenes” is quite frankly a hindrance. I have a lot of work to do, I have to make it enjoyable for the couple and their friends (make 20 minutes seem like it was 2 hours) and guests, and I don’t need the extra distraction of wondering what the trainee is doing/not doing.

Now, that all sounded harsh I’m sure and it’s not meant to be cruel but I think brutal honesty is needed. I too get many who want to shoot or lug gear. I don’t have time for those who don’t know what they’re doing. A wedding day is not the time to train someone. I actually have a job to do (the old cliche of not being able to go back and do it again is true) and there are already many distractions I have to ignore and I don’t need another. So I would recommend (if you haven’t already) is not to offer to shoot or lug gear. Your best bet is to ask to shadow the second or assistant(s). Do not bring a camera. Do not carry/move/hold and equipment. Do not interact with anyone. Remember, you’ll be part of the photographer’s crew and you actions reflect on him/her. A comment that may seem harmless to you can deeply offend people, reflecting on the photographer and his/her business. Your best bet is to stay behind the second or assistant and do nothing but observe and smile. Oh, and then you have to hope you get a decent photographer to allow this. Ideally of course, you’d like to follow someone who really knows what he/she is doing on the day.

Now that all said, you may find you can’t even get an invitation to shadow. “I understand that they don’t want to be training up someone who may eventually become their competition but surely everyone has to start somewhere no?”…is not the problem for all the reasons I stated above, at least from my perspective. Whether I “train” someone or they learn elsewhere, they will become my competition. You can’t stop it. But back to you. Do a fake wedding. Do you have any friends? Ask them to be the bride and groom and spend some time with them. Get feedback on how your are directing them. And timing. Don’t lose track of the time. You don’t want to get someone to their reception late.
Then the next step would be a real wedding. Now, I hate to see any couple on their day get sub-par photos. The stark reality though is that there are couples out there is a budget so low that a photographer is out of the question. That is your opportunity to do the job for them. Be completely upfront and let them know your experience level (zero). But do what you can and that’s to be as technically proficient with your gear that you can be. Hone your “people skills”. Know how to read people and make them comfortable. And don’t lose track of time. With luck, and tons of hard work, you will improve and gain confidence. And use each and every moment of the day as a learning experience and take that into the next wedding and make every shot and moment better than the last. Good luck.

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illekkenobi….That first one instantly reminded me of the movie “Vertigo” and actually gave me vertigo. It’s a good thing my chair has arms.

Personally, I think the “about” (for mapleview) ought to be rethought as ” I strive to get that one photography that everyone will love for a lifetime. “, sounds odd. I know it’s a typo and not the end of the world but details are everything. And as they are open 24 hours, I plan on calling when I get home tonight from shooting today’s wedding, somewhere around 2 a.m.

In any case, all I see are beginner shots and I hope they will come to learn how to use fill light of some sort to avoid
https://www.facebook.com/MapleViewCreations/photos/a.395791723860676.1073741832.395784793861369/395792370527278/?type=3&theater

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EyeDocPhotog…”I tried to look at the links to the photos from https://www.facebook.com/michaelbrayphotography but I get a message that this page is unavailable. Perhaps someone ‘photo-shamed’ him?”
I suppose that is so. I remember seeing only one reply, something along the lines of “how unprofessional”. Hopefully he got some others too and that’s why his “I can’t wait till this “F****** winter is over” or something to that effect post was removed. Amateur or pro, it’s definitely language you don’t want on your site, even if it is just fb.

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alexandra…WOW that is a find! This is definitely front page material. If nothing else, for the wonderful language on the post. How in world could someone think that those words are appropriate for a business site? I know it’s only fb, but still, I would never in a million hire someone who posted that. I don’t see any wedding shots but I wonder if he could hold his tongue considering how stressful the day can be. Let that “f” word slip just once during the family shoot and you’d be kissing your career goodbye for sure.

The train tracks are cute. Only thing missing is some rope and the mountie coming to the rescue. I hope I don’t give him ideas. I’d recommend a better lens though. The right side of the frame is nasty looking.

Those boudoirs are just the most unflattering and poorly shot/posed I’ve seen in a long time. I dare say they would rank near the top of the all time worst.

Other than that, he is and admits he is an amateur after all, so I won’t be too hard on him. However, even as an amateur, you ought to realize that these photos are practice and should not be posted for potential clients to see. We all had to start out sometime and were all amateurs at one point. But you have to realize that posting this,
https://www.facebook.com/michaelbrayphotography/photos/a.720650198018893.1073741841.686776051406308/720650238018889/?type=3&theater
does not make me want to hire you to shoot my engagements. I suspect they are in love, but they don’t look it in this shot. That’s the photographer’s fail, not theirs. They are just two people standing awkwardly.
This shot is simply a snap that mom wanted to take but can’t because it’s impossible to take a shot of your back. It says nothing and is ordinary.
https://www.facebook.com/michaelbrayphotography/photos/a.782983315118914.1073741848.686776051406308/782983408452238/?type=3&theater
Again, it’s a start and it’s great to go out and shoot a few hundred to get a feel for what works and how it works but you shouldn’t be posting this with the hope of getting business. My eye is more interested in the background apartment and snow fence than the little girl. The opposite of what you should be doing. Fine for an amateur, but don’t post it.

All moot of course because that “wishing this damn cold,….” ought to seal the deal for most people and just look elsewhere.

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fstopper89–I saw that “family photo gem” too and wondered why anyone would think people would look good with blotchy skin. As so many times before, these fauxs take what could have been at least a passable shot (minus the racoon eyes) and turned it into a psychedelic nightmare. I guess she was keen to show off her repertoire of photoshop skills. And yes, I too would like to know if they truly “liked” it or simply did because they were too nice to actually tell her how it truly resembles a pile of guano.

And yes, let’s never forget to add some train tracks in there. Which of course, really added nothing to the shot anyway.

I’ve seen my share of track shots in my neck of the woods. I’ve even been en route to parks for formals and headed for the reception and driven over tracks and seen other bridal parties posing on them. And these are LIVE tracks with quite a few trains daily. I can’t imagine with the shoes the ladies wear that this is something the photographer thought was a smart idea. Even if the couple requested it, did the bridal party want to risk their lives too? Did it occur to them? I’ve had one request, told them it’s illegal and I can’t do something illegal, my insurance won’t cover damage or injury and sanity prevailed. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there on the tracks, right beside the signs that tell them in not quite as many words that only idiots go near live tracks. Sorry, didn’t mean to go on a “track rant” but there you go.

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MKO—It wasn’t so much a statement about you as it was my own preference regarding privacy. I am just careful as to never mention names. I always post online photos with password protected hosting sites and as for facebook, I am careful to select certain ones only.
In any case, I’m sure after a while, most wedding photographers would be able to write volumes about the day. I don’t think any photographer has done a wedding season and not shaken his/her head (in private) at least a few times. As long as the bride and groom are happy though, all the quirky little things don’t matter though.

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Mattymay is a find. I guess she never heard the saying “you get what you pay for”? The disregard for composition (why do these fauxs never see the junk in the background?), a few that I saw oof had the background crisp as can be (love how that draws your attention to the junk and away from the subject, sort of like bokeh in reverse I guess), and many where you couldn’t find something in focus if you had a microscope, and of course, as always, the total lack of knowledge on lighting your subject (unless you like racoon eyes).
People will never understand that a photographer, especially a wedding photographer, is a luxury. You just won’t get decent photographs from an inexpensive one as you will a “high priced” (with high priced being relative for many), with the exception of a talented photographer charging less while building a portfolio for a short period of time and then he/she will be at the “normal” price range.
If you are the type of customer who will be happy with this,
https://www.facebook.com/mattymayphotography/photos/a.927533823928442.1073741839.841084669240025/927533837261774/?type=3&theater
or this
https://www.facebook.com/mattymayphotography/photos/a.927533823928442.1073741839.841084669240025/927533833928441/?type=3&theater
or
https://www.facebook.com/mattymayphotography/photos/a.927533823928442.1073741839.841084669240025/927533920595099/?type=3&theater
then by all means, hire her today.

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Suzanne is always open. I’ll call her tonight after the hockey game, see how she’s doing.

Bunch of “meh”. She definitely doesn’t look like someone who’s been in this game for 10 years. Sorry, but I don’t see the story about the bashing anywhere. Again, just going by the quick glance and I only see one wedding with just the bride and a grotesque shot of the bridesmaids and a bunch of other nothing specials.

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