Home Forums Am I a Fauxtog? you're not a real photographer because your camera is too small/ not full frame

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Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 57 total)
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  • #23204
    nesgran
    Member

    IHF, the A7r is also a full frame camera, as is the A7s 🙂

    Full frame and bigger cameras will have the upper hand when it comes to image quality and iso performance compared to smaller sensored cameras. It boils down to simple physics. A full frame camera will have 1.3 stops better noise performance roughly compared to a 1.6x crop camera simply because of the bigger surface area to collect light (assuming exactly the same tech and same resolution). The lenses will also not need to be as sharp at the same resolutions to get the same useable resolution. However, digital cameras reached a good enough level a long time ago. Good enough for professional use and good enough that most clients won’t tell the difference. A full frame camera will by virtue of having the bigger sensor have the advantage in all areas apart from weight of lenses.

    #23205
    CPowers
    Member

    I just emailed that vid to my dad who owns a couple of those Silver Shadows… he’s going to be sick when he sees it.

    #23206
    Don
    Member

    Would you take your car to a mechanic that doesn’t have metric sockets?

     

    You can find great images taken with crop bodies, but that’s the exception. A PROFESSIONAL should be using the best equipment he can get.

    And let’s not forget the second part of what I said. Lenses and lighting.

     

    And no, I’m not a professional and I use a crop body. Mainly because I’ve always shot Pentax, but I would never DREAM of charging someone to take photos because I don’t have the proper equipment.

    #23208
    IHF
    Member

    Nesgran,
    Oops lol whelp… I guess that just proves/shows I’m not a gear head. Exif data is something I just don’t ever pay attention too (unless I have to when viewing other people’s work) and don’t much care about. I know my fuji, and I knew my 7d, and I have rented a mark ll for 3weeks because I was told they were better, and I was considering a purchase. (My fuji is a better performer in low light and produced much less noise than the markll, but the markll DID add to my field of view. I didn’t really like that, and I found myself wanting to crop my pictures all the time, instead of being happy with the crop in camera, and in essence throwing away the biggest advantage to owning a full frame). That’s all the camera experience I have other than point and shoots and a little dabble in film for a few years. So I’m pretty unfamiliar with Sony and Nikon, etc. and can only go by my own experiences.
    It was the first time I ever tried to look up professionals that use crop sensors, and I guess I failed at effectively getting my point across because I’m so unfamiliar. But, I know pros and serious shooters DO use them, and even some prefer them over larger sensors, and people seem idiotic (or possibly a better term would be outdated/out of touch) to me for saying you have to use full frame to be a real photographer, or that full frame cameras are somehow better. Crop and full both have their advantages and disadvantages period.
    I think most who fall into the debate and say ff is better, and/or you need a ff to be a serious shooter or working photographer, are thinking in their heads of crop cameras equivalent to Aunt Sue’s rebel, and haven’t looked much further than that.
    I know I’d never say “you need a cropped sensor to get the shots you are desiring”, just as I’d never tell someone they need a full frame to be a pro. It’s an individual preference.

    Would I take my car to a mechanic that didn’t have metric sockets?
    I honestly didn’t know there were different types of sockets.
    I would take my car to a mechanic that I know does good work, or that was recommended to me.
    Just as I would hire a photographer based on their portfolio, and not their camera size

    #23209
    IHF
    Member

    I have to share a link I found while searching for cropped body professionals.  While I don’t think he handled the situation perfectly, I still like his “rant”

    #23210
    IHF
    Member
    #23211

    Would you take your car to a mechanic that doesn’t have metric sockets?

    Well, the car we owned last month would not have benefited from metric sockets since the parts were SAE sizes, so there was no point in demanding the mechanic have metric.  That car was serviced at the local Ford dealership.  This month, and going forward, the new car will be serviced at the local Toyota dealership, and I imagine metric sockets will be used.

    You can find great images taken with crop bodies, but that’s the exception. A PROFESSIONAL should be using the best equipment he can get.

    And let’s not forget the second part of what I said. Lenses and lighting.

    In the auto mechanic analogy, I would expect any mechanic to have wrenches, and sockets, just as I would expect any photographer to have a camera.  I would expect professional mechanics to have suitable tools for the service they are offering.  Good tools have better balance, are safer to use, last longer, and generally do a better job.  But most customers would not be able to tell you the relative worth of a Snap-On socket compared to a Hazet, or a Husky, or even a Craftsman.  Many may also not know there is a set of sockets for hand ratchets and a different set for use with impact wrenches.  Most customers won’t care.  Personally, I like mechanics that start nuts and bolts by hand and tighten them with a torque wrench.  It can be a challenge to find mechanics like that.

    I hope to keep this fairly brief.  Some professional mechanics only do fluid changes and lubrication.  They need a very limited set of wrenches and few specialized tools.  Others work at shops that can do almost any repair and they need a much wider selection of wrenches as well as many specialized tools.  They need more knowledge as well, be it in their heads or in a set of shop manuals or a computer.  They are all doing a job, and getting paid, so they are professionals.  While I have trusted Speedy Lube to pull the oil drain plug, change oil and filter and get me on the road again, I wouldn’t consider asking them to rebuild my engine.  I’m not sure I would trust that to my local dealer, even.

    Photography is a similar thing.  There are people at all different levels.  There is a plethora of equipment available.  Some professionals can handle any assignment, some can handle limited assignments and some are extremely specialized and will be out of their depth if they deviate from that specialization.  And, there are amateurs that are at least as good as the professionals at each level.  We perceive trouble developing when someone is offering a service at a level at which they can’t perform.  That may be due to hardware, or knowledge.  Since even APS-C and four-thirds cameras from several years ago can easily out perform 35 mm film, the problem is probably not the camera.  Sometimes the customer doesn’t do due diligence.  Sometimes the advertising is overly optimistic.   Sometimes the customer is happy, but we think the product is crap.

     

    #23212
    Don
    Member

    Of course everyone is focusing on the full frame part and not the lenses and lighting.

     

    If you’re going to spend the money you need on lenses and lighting, a full frame body isn’t a big deal anyway.

    #23241
    jermyster
    Member

    i totally agree with I hate Fauxtography and his replies and links.  equipment helps, but he’s got proof and links that you just need the skills, creativity, and some talent.

    #23251
    Don
    Member

    Professional photography isn’t about “skills creativity and talent”. It’s about making money. It’s a business.

     

    Sure you need some level of those things, but you also need to provide a consistently good product for your customers. That requires quality equipment that is durable and reliable. Anyone shooting a wedding with a M4/3 camera or a point and shoot might get a couple good shots that look fine on a computer screen, but that’s not what a couple getting married wants. They want a couple hundred properly exposed and in focus shots that document their special day. That requires a good body, good lenses and good lighting.

     

    All we’re seeing here is a bunch of fauxs trying to justify not having the proper equipment. In the days of film, you didn’t see professionals using 110 or disc cameras. They used 35mm and up. Same thing here.

    #23257
    emf
    Member

     

    All we’re seeing here is a bunch of fauxs trying to justify not having the proper equipment. 

     

    That’s not the case at all.

    #23260
    IHF
    Member

    All we’re seeing here is a bunch of fauxs trying to justify not having the proper equipment. In the days of film, you didn’t see professionals using 110 or disc cameras. They used 35mm and up. Same thing here.

    hahaha I LOVE it!

    night made

    #23261

    Professional photography isn’t about “skills creativity and talent”. It’s about making money. It’s a business.

    True statement!

    Looking at all the pages & people that have been featured here, it is apparent the bar is set quite low for “skills, creativity and talent” (at least photographic talent).   A business has to manage costs and revenue.  Often a business does not use the best possible equipment due to cost.  If you are using lighting, you can get away with a lesser camera than if you are relying on poor quality ambient light.  If 35 mm film is sufficient quality, then many APS-C cameras offer sufficient quality.

    Some customers may want a sharp subject and soft background, while others may want everything in focus.  Some customers have no preference and probably don’t know there are options.  Judging by photos on here, some photographers don’t know either!  I’m not convinced every couple wants a couple of hundred photos, either.  Some do.  Some just want a few good photos.  It seems to depend on the couple involved.

    A moment ago the TV (CBC News) was showing some couple got married by a bumbling minister.  Turns out the minister was not legally authorized to perform a marriage!   So, it’s not just photographers that couples have to watch out for!

    #23262
    nesgran
    Member

    Tax write off people!

    Agreed it makes little financial sense to be using the very best equipment when lesser gear will make do. In the camera world it is obvious why most photographers don’t use digital medium format. However when you get to crop cameras from CaNikon it makes little sense. A full frame camera will produce sharper images, better noise profile and have a better selection of lenses available. The price difference between a rebel and a 6D isn’t huge but put them side by side and do a comparison in typical event tog conditions and it will be a world apart. The fujis are interesting and perform very well, they also have a whole eco system of good lenses available. Micro 3/4 just doesn’t make sense to me unless you are doing both video and still where suddenly they make complete sense. The question you should ask yourself as a customer is why choose a photographer that doesn’t have the best gear available within reason? I doubt I would unless they could explain why they chose that camera be it for discreteness or for video capabilities or some other reason. True cameras are getting better and better by the month but why not aim for better than mediocre gear. For example, at the olympics there are usually segments where they look back at previous olympics. Next time you see it make note of how the image quality of the footage is improving each consecutive game. It is also like saying the gear we are using now are far superior to what say Adams or HCB used. While this is true they were using the very best gear available to them at the time so why should we not be doing that now? I don’t see a place for a mid range crop camera with a working photographer other than as a third body or something like a 7DII now that the venerable 1DIVs are getting worn out for some sport use.

    #23267

    Here is a real world example of “Professional Photography”.  Santa stopped by for a photo op with the kids.  I was visiting the dentist which is in the same mall, so I took a couple of photos on the way from the dentist’s office to Walmart.

    2014-11-27_14-27-26_IMG_3066

    They are using a Nikon D90 with Alien Bees B1600 flash and a shoot through umbrella!?!  No idea who set them up.  I don’t even know if they are from the camera store in the mall or Walmart’s studio.  I think those are the most likely sources.  I don’t think the mall has a dedicated photo studio tenant.

    Pretty sure they are raking in the case though.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 57 total)
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