Home Forums Am I a Fauxtog? you're not a real photographer because your camera is too small/ not full frame

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  • #23176

    If you charge for photos you should use proper equipment. That means a full frame body and proper lenses/lighting.

    Peter Hurley uses medium format (mostly because he has it) and shoots head shots!  By that standard, full frame is too small.  Trey Ratcliff and Zach Arias think APS-C is fine for what they are doing.

    As with many other businesses, it depends on customer expectations.

    #23179
    IHF
    Member

    “If you charge for photos you should use proper equipment. That means a full frame body and proper lenses/lighting.”

    Ut OH!  You better tell all these photographers to hang it up then

    http://innesphotography.com

    Panasonic GH4 micro 4/3

     

    2014 | The Year So Far – London Wedding Photographer

    Fuji X-Pro1 and X100s

     

    Stories

    sony a7 crop

     

    http://www.bigdaygalleries.co.uk/#!/1/featured/click_any_image_to_enlarge/90

    fuji X 100s

     

    http://www.mattwilkinsonphotography.co.uk

    Fuji X-T1/ X-pro1

     

    http://www.brockbestphotography.com/#our-story-1

    Olympus OM-D E-M1 crop

     

    http://www.bcapphoto.com

    Fuji film X-T1

     

    http://jessejamesphotography.ca

    Fuji X-E2

     

    http://www.colinnichollsphotography.com

    Fuji X-E2 / X100

     

    http://www.rpphotographybydesign.co.uk

    Olympus OM-D E-M1

     

    http://www.kevinmullinsphotography.co.uk

    FujiFilm X-T1

     

    http://www.heiter-bis-wolkig.info/p944322728#h138df4e2

    Olympus Om-D E-M1

     

    http://www.shaunking.com

    Olympus OM-D E-M1 / Panasonic GH4

     

    http://hamburg-hochzeitsfotografen.de

    Sony A7

     

    http://brillpix.com

    Fuji Film X-T1

     

    http://www.fotografomatrimoni.biz/?post_type=portfolio

    Olympus OM-D E-M1

     

    http://www.fabiocamandona.com/?page_id=23

    Fuji Film X-E2

     

    http://www.phildweddingphotography.co.uk

    Fuji Film X-T1

     

    http://www.hochzeitsfotograf-alexander-hahn.de/hannover/index.php#/page/41d3/galerie/

    Olympus OM-D EM1

    #23180
    IHF
    Member

    Here’s another list of lousy cropped body professionals that shouldn’t be charging

    http://www.bestmirrorlesscamerareviews.com/2013/08/23/13-amazing-professional-photographers-who-use-mirrorless-cameras-on-the-job/

    And these guys!  What were thing thinking using cropped sensor camera on professional gigs like this?  They seriously goofed up.  I hope they aren’t charging

     

    http://shotkit.com/fujifilm-x-t1/

     

    Portraits in the ruins of Spain with the Fuji X-Pro1 ~ pictures and techniques

     

    http://scottrobertla.com/2014/05/22/wedding-amalfi-coast-italy-and-sony-a7-review/

     

    Ok Ok I know I’m being obnoxious now lol But seriously… open that mind of yours a little bit 😉 There really are some kick ass cropped bodies out there doing serious work for serious photographers.

    #23182
    emf
    Member

    @ Bill, I think no. 1 is the full frame too. I’m no way a pixel peeper, or very techy, but the colours seem a little crisper. but I don’t think it’s a fair competition anyway as imo the composition in the first one is better than the second; nice clear b/g, use of three, strong diagonal, echoing shapes etc. So I will instantly prefer the first image anyway, which I guess goes back to the point of this thread.

    #23185
    nesgran
    Member

    To be slightly pedantic the Sony A7 is a full frame mirrorless

    #23186
    IHF
    Member

    Oh shit!  lol I had it confused with the A7r.  Well… I’m not gonna look that one up and find pros that use it, then I’d be even more obnoxious about this than I already am 😉

    #23188
    fstopper89
    Member

    Here’s my take on it.

    Most full-frame/high-end/professional bodies will offer you more potential in more types of lighting/situations than crop bodies or beginner bodies/lenses. While a good photographer who knows what they’re doing will 9 times out of 10 be able to get a GREAT photo using a Canon Rebel, there are always those situations they will just simply be limited due to the equipment. This is the reason I upgraded from a T2i to the 40D (that was more of a lateral move/had both at once) then to the 5D Mark II and then last year upgraded that to the 5D Mark III. I did this in an educated manner- I outgrew the previous and needed the features of the better camera for what I was shooting. Yes the 5D Mark III blows the others out of the water in most respects. I still kept the T2i as I have found great uses for it- it’s good for when I want to hand it off to a friend who isn’t really a photographer who wants to shoot some pictures and wants to learn and also is more my “knock around” camera that I’m willing to take hiking or on a canoe etc. since if it does break I’m not really out any money. Reasons I went to the 5D Mark III were: exceptional autofocus system/ more AF points with 41 being cross-type points, dual card slots (I save to two cards simultaneously for peace of mind against card corruption which several friends have experienced), the weather sealing/strong build quality, and the phenomenal sensor where I can often shoot over 2000 ISO still relatively noise-free. All of these were important to me and my previous cameras did not offer them. Yes, when I started I did shoot some paid sessions with the T2i and 40D. I even shot three paid sessions using the kit lenses with the T2i… gasp… but I knew what I was doing and the photos still turned out good. By my standards now they were more mediocre, but I wouldn’t have even called myself a fauxtographer at that point. I was shooting in manual and knew a lot about how to use the camera though I know plenty more now. But I quickly outgrew that after getting my feet wet trying out a full-frame camera. I 2nd shot a wedding and got to use the primary’s 5D Mark II and had to get one for myself shortly after, after I realized how much better images were turning out. I wouldn’t call someone not a real photographer just by their equipment alone. If they are producing awesome work with a Rebel, they’re still a real photographer. Everyone knows those people who have the best and most expensive equipment out there and are still producing boring and mediocre photos.

    Point is a good photographer will produce good photos regardless of the equipment but will potentially be limited in what they can do with entry-level equipment. A bad photographer is still a bad photographer even with the best equipment. A good photographer will recognize why they need better equipment.

    #23190
    seth
    Member

    What she said ^^^

    #23191
    CPowers
    Member

    Frankly I’ve never really cared what cameras others were using. Those photographers listed above (and I’ll admit I don’t know most of them) likely gained notoriety with their work prior to being endorsed by any manufacturer or anyone caring what they used for equipment. Personally, I look at a body of work and hire someone I really don’t care what tools they use, it’s the results I care about.

    That said, they are more of the exception and not the rule. You can find incredible photos shot on smartphones.

    I started on a D60 with a 35mm prime and found another photographer to start mentoring me. He started me on shooting manual within weeks of owning it. I soon found the lack of a front control wheel a hindrance to quickly adapting to changing conditions. I also found I shot a pretty fair amount of low light and the AF system and high ISO performance was unsatisfactory. I made the rounds through Nikon’s crop bodies in an effort to get greater ease of adaptation to changing conditions and to have versatility. Eventually those things that I needed, precise AF, Hi ISO, all the cameras functions at my finger tips without taking my eye out of the viewfinder, led me to the full frame body I currently shoot. I’m not a full-time professional, that’s just my course of evolution and why. I think many photographers would site a similar set of reasons they went to full frame.

    I’m not going to lie, if I see the photographer at a wedding I’m attending shooting an entry level body with a kit lens etc I’m going to wonder just what kind of work this person is producing. I’m going to ask for a card, check out their website etc. Actually I’ll probably do that regardless of what they are using. But I’ll suspect the person shooting an entry level body to be producing less than professional work and be pleasantly surprised when it’s better. At the same time I’ll expect the person shooting the flagship body should be producing some decent work or better.  I can’t help that perception be cause though it’s not 100% true, the equipment is an outward sign of what’s goin on inside. If I see a guy with saggy pant, I figure he likes rap music…. 100% true? Probably not but I’d be right more than I was wrong. I’d take those odds to Vegas any day.

    Correct me if I’m wrong. We are discussing  comments and perceptions about photographers by non-photographers/beginning photographers that are based on the type of camera/equipment the photographer is using? Seems a bit pointless. Like trying to explain algebra to a parrot. He’ll repeat what you said, but will not understand it. Those are just my thoughts no one asked for.

    #23195
    IHF
    Member

    “Correct me if I’m wrong. We are discussing  comments and perceptions about photographers by non-photographers/beginning photographers that are based on the type of camera/equipment the photographer is using? Seems a bit pointless. Like trying to explain algebra to a parrot. He’ll repeat what you said, but will not understand it.”

    I love that CP 🙂

    The biggest discussions and biggest arguments in photography forums usually are about topics that just don’t matter in the long run.  The RAW vs Jpeg, and the cropped vs full frame, and brand of camera, brand of lighting, lenses and on and on…  It’s the final image that counts.  The most acclaimed pictures out there, or should I say most jaw dropping (because some are made by people who are not well known) … well.. no one ever asks was it shot with a full frame or cropped body, or was it converted to jpeg in camera or in software?

    Just had this pass by in my feed again today, and thought it sort of pertained to our discussion.  Even if it doesn’t, it’s still funny as hell, and I think you all will like it.  “It’s not about the equipment as much as it is the person behind it” told in a very humorous and kind of different way than usual.

    Local Man Buys New Lens for Camera, Becomes Awesome Photographer Overnight

    #23196
    CPowers
    Member

    ^^That’s a funny read.

    I think photographers who feel insulted because some non/new photographer commented about their entry level equipment have problems with insecurity.

    Something  like this:

    Perception: “You must suck because you don’t have professional equipment”

    Reality: No, I suck because I suck, my camera has nothing to do with my sucking. For you to not understand that offends me and causes me to realize that you recognize I probably suck and you have never seen even a single one of my sucky photos. How presumptuous of you to think I suck. Let me educate you. Here is a list of photographers who don’t suck that use cameras that you probably would think suck. Now I feel vindicated for unduly being labeled a sucky photographer. I promise, I don’t suck, my mom says I’m great.

     

    #23197
    IHF
    Member

    and trying to get back on the original topic

    I think we can ALL agree with the original poster here.  Someone who buys a full frame without knowing why, and only because they heard ” They are better”, or claims no one can be a REAL photographer unless they shoot with a full frame, is asinine.  Regardless of what we shoot with and/or why we choose the equipment we do the previous poster was told they would never be a real photographer without a full frame.  When in most instances, it was more about miss use of light, exposure, composition, focusing issues, posing etc rather than the equipment.  I don’t think anyone should be told they NEED a full frame (or blah blah blah lens), because if they do need one to achieve the pictures they desire, or to make their picture creation more fluid or easier, they would already know it, and know why they wanted one.

    I have a good friend that is a faux.  After just one year of shooting she bought a full frame because “They are better”, and she “Out grew her baby camera”.  Her photography has in turn become worse, because she never really took the time to get to know her equipment and doesn’t understand the fundamentals.  She has even more focusing issues now, and UGH I could go on and on.  My biggest fear is when she starts to seriously network… and one of her pictures ends up getting featured here.  It’s painful to watch, but she’s a pro now because she shoots full frame.  I belong to a large photography group on Facebook that is chuck full of full frame pros that seriously have no clue, because they all read online that “full frame is better, and to be serious/professional you NEED to shoot with a full frame camera”.  It’s detrimental to say things like that, rather than helpful I think.

    #23200
    IHF
    Member

    All I’m saying is plenty of professionals/serious shooters use cropped bodies too.  High end cropped bodies with sensitive sensors, but with a crop factor smaller than 35mm just the same, just as there are some that shoot medium format or larger.

    #23201
    IHF
    Member

    “No, I suck because I suck, my camera has nothing to do with my sucking. For you to not understand that offends me and causes me to realize that you recognize I probably suck and you have never seen even a single one of my sucky photos. How presumptuous of you to think I suck. Let me educate you. Here is a list of photographers who don’t suck that use cameras that you probably would think suck. Now I feel vindicated for unduly being labeled a sucky photographer. I promise, I don’t suck, my mom says I’m great.”

    as they go out and shop for a full frame camera lol

    #23203

    An expensive camera improves photography the same way an expensive car improves driving.  For your amusement watch what they do to the Rolls Royce!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz-A7PloD4s

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