Needing reassurance!

[creyes8519]

(cont.)  I mean, You’ve got a pic of an orange black lady that appears to be making love with a tree.  Seriously dude… get off the high horse

[IHF]

So let me get this straight.  You would hire her because she’s affordable.  How does this help her to be a full time tog with a thriving business?

while I appreciate your difference of opinion (I really do, this is what I like to see in forums), I think you could have gotten your point across just fine without trying to discredit someone else who has an opinion that differs from yourself.  Attacking the way you did, just makes you look silly, and makes your opinion look less credible.

[MBChamberlain]

Creyes,

Let me try to explain this in terms that you can understand. You say you are a mom, so I understand that it is in your nature to protect and offer blind encouragement. So let’s equate this to an experience with your kids.

Let’s say you have a 5 year old little boy and he has started to play t-ball. He’s the best on his team, bats .900, and has even progressed to hitting without the t in practice. He looks at the pros and sees that they have a batting average of .180-.250 and comes to you to ask if he can be a professional ball player.

If you react the way you have here, you’d rush out to the nearest major city and insist that their baseball team give your son a tryout. When the coach informs you that your son weighs less than the average equipment bag and doesn’t have the strength to throw from the mound to the plate, you berate him, insist that he’s arrogant and doesn’t know what he’s talking about, that your son is amazing and that he would do well not to discourage your son. Let’s suspend reality for a moment and assume that the coach gives him the tryout just to make it so he doesn’t have to deal with the crazy mom anymore. Your son goes to his tryout, and faced with a 90mph fastball for the first time, swings and strikes out, over and over and over again while the players laugh at him and the coach shakes his head. On the way home, the boy is in tears… you try to tell him he’s amazing, but now that he’s seen what amazing really is, he’s broken. He quits his team, and never swings a bat again. All because of your encouragement.

Now let’s look at this same scene my way had my son come to me with the same request. I sit the boy down and explain that he’s only a boy, and that playing t-ball isn’t the same as playing pro. I encourage him, not for his abilities, but to his potential by being honest and telling him that he’ll need to work very hard if he wants to be a pro player some day. He works hard, I take him to the batting cages, work with him as he progresses to little league, then senior league, than high school. His hard work pays off and he gets a scholarship to play baseball at the college of his choice and he’s picked up after graduation by a minor league team. I keep encouraging him to improve. He works hard, and finally, 20 years after he came to me wanting to be a pro ball player, he’s picked up by a pro team.

It would be utterly ridiculous to take the first approach with your child, so why is it any less ridiculous to do it in this situation?

Hard truths are always preferable to comfortable lies. If you come to me for advice, I tell the truth, I do so in the hope that the OP will in fact reach that potential. In order to grow, you must understand where you are and what direction to go. I’ve got experience in the business. I know how hard it is, I know what it takes. I know that if you start business before your skill is strong enough to support it, you have to support it with sheer will, and that is a crushing weight.

It is something about photography that I hate, but roughly 80% of all professional photographers who have been working over 5 years are men while around 75% of those working less than 5 are women.I’ve never been able to figure out why, but I am learning, through my interactions on this site, a reason that finally is starting to make sense. It’s their female friends who don’t understand that encouragement can be as dangerous as it it beneficial. Moms like you. Moms who get together and encourage other moms that their pictures are amazing and that they should go into business. You build them up with the highly addictive drugs or praise and status, then rush them to their pro tryout before they’ve mastered the basics and think you’re helping them. You’re not, you are dooming them to be crushed, their passion destroyed, their hopes dashed. You are unwittingly damning them with your good intentions.

I don’t care what you think of me, I don’t care what the OP thinks of me. It isn’t my problem, so I can tell her the truth in the hope that it will help her. I’d rather she hate me forever and succeed than have her like me and fail. The best teachers I ever had were not the ones who handed out easy A’s, who coddled and told me I was wonderful. The best teachers are the ones who focused on all that I could be, who gave me the tools to learn and left it up to me to grow. I didn’t like them at the time, but now that I’m older and more mature, I appreciate them more than the teachers I loved at the time, the latter I can’t even remember their names, the former (Gloria Apple, Jim Springer, Betty Endelman, Sandra Bade, Dennis McMaken, and Dan Shaffer) I will never forget.

[creyes8519]

No, i would not hire her because she is affordable, i would hire her becauase i genuinely like her work. I do not agree with the opinion that right out of the gate photogs should charge high prices. When she becomes more skilled, has more equipment and experience… By all means, raise prices. Sure she will lose existing clientele but she will gain a new one. I attacked a person who was rude from the start. Very sarcastic, and offensive… Ill continue later.

[IHF]

“Sure there are other photographers out there with years of experience, who have been to workshops, who may be award-winning photographers and they take beyond stunning photos, but 99.9% of the time to book with a photographer like that it’s going to cost some serious $$$$.  As the OP said, she’s affordable… so yes I would choose her over the more experienced photographer.”

pricing isn’t based on skill level.  First you learn a profession, then you go into business.  Pricing is based on a formula of your expenses of being in business/overhead with a careful mix of demographics, all while making sure you are getting paid a decent salary/hourly wage for your time invested in doing business.

what you are asking her to do is, work for peanuts while she learns and gets her skills up to par before she charges enough to stay afloat.  The learning process takes a lot longer while shooting for others, than when you are a student and are allowing yourself time to learn.  Running a business is a very consuming task, And a very expensive one. Your advice sets her up for burnout and failure.  Did you know that most (if not all) togs that jump in too quickly, fail with in 2 to 4 years?  Look at the potential that would be lost?  She’s much better not taking on business right now and saving it for when she has a strong foundation to rely on, a time when she can shoot for hire and not go into debt doing it, by being able to price her photography appropriately.

[IHF]

And I’ll leave the other topic alone and just assume you have never been critiqued before.  When it’s unfamiliar, it can come across very harsh and cruel, but every artist who has ever gone through a productive one (which this one was.  well as productive as it can be in a forum) comes out the other end, a better artist for it.  We never forget our harshest critiques, and what they gave us.

[creyes8519]

I went to school for Media Communication.   I’ve taken 3 different photography classes.  I have my own Nikon and remote control and do my own family portraits because at the moment I can not afford to pay a professional photographer for every holiday.  I also take pics of my kids just for fun and read about photography techniques so my own photos look better.  Just to give you a little background in case you’re wondering “Who the F is attacking me?”

I will never get into the photography game for a number of reasons, but I have tremendous respect for photographers.  At the same time, I have a real hard time with A LOT of pro photographers.  Seriously…the more experience, the more snobby they seem to get.   I once had an instructor who was one of those types.  I took a photo of my grandmother, and I was really proud of myself because to me it really captured her 100%.  My father still has it to this day in his office at work and gets compliments all the time from his co-workers and clients.  Her personality really shined through in the picture.   I thought that pic was golden and I still do!  She was dead center in the frame.  Top of her head a little snapped off, there was a febreeze bottle in the background that did kinda make it look like it was a tiny little bottle next to her ear.  My instructor took one look at it and said “Have I taught you nothing?”   Sometimes I think photographers with a passion for photography really work so hard at making their own work perfect, that they forget how to look at a picture!   You can’t just look at a picture for how technically sound it is.  Sure, exposure, lighting and composition are all very important elements to creating a good photo, but  you also have to see the moment that the photographer captured.  That’s what normal folks actually see when they look at a photo… not if it’s properly composed or exposed correctly.  I appreciate your critique about the photo of the newborn and mother on the bed that the OP posted on here.  You did mention the baby’s expression and despite the errors, that she should keep the photo in her portfolio.   But I was just offended when you told her that she should stop charging for her work.  I do not agree.  She has a lot of pictures in her Facebook that I do not believe she should put in her portfolio, and that is something she’ll learn with time.  But she has captured some great photos that have “sold” me, as a consumer.

From a consumer’s perspective, if I am scouting for photographers in the area to take a family portrait, I would put the OP as someone on the list that I would consider, depending on prices and what-not.  Listen, for a lot of people money is an issue.  I know it is for me!   If I didn’t become a DIYer, I would be looking for the most affordable but at the same time I don’t want crap pictures.  In my area, there are a lot of outstanding photographers but you look at their price list and we’re talking $200-400 a session.  No, sorry, I simply cannot afford those kind of prices for things like Holiday photos, birthday photos etc.   SO, next option….. head down to Walmart, JCPenny….  But… ugh…. i hate those pictures.   So …. because I can’t afford it I can’t have nice pictures taken of my kids?   Because you experienced photographers believe that all photographers should have 5-10+ years experience before charging money?  And then after those 5-10+ years charge $200-300 per session? Really, photogs…. look at it from the consumer’s perspective!   I actually am in this diliemma right now because I have not been able to take good pictures of my kids’ birthday parties because being a host and photographer at the same time is next to impossible.  But I can’t hire anyone because I just can not afford it!  I have went on Craigslist to check out some deals and the photographers on there are just hopeless….

There were a couple of things that bothered me about this thread and it was not because I was trying to protect a “fellow mom”.  It was because I am annoyed by the damn snobbery!   I understand that a lot of professional photographers are probably peeved because of new photographers taking their business, but that’s not their fault….. it’s yours.   Look at clothing/shoe designers!   You’ve got Jimmy Choo who charges thousands for a pair of shoes, there are designers who sell at Sears and JCPenny, and then there’s Payless designers.  The designers featured at Payless has their market, and Jimmy Choo has theirs.  It’s all about marketing.  There’s an episode of “Weeds” that I think I can relate to this discussion.  The main character work as an assistant in a really high-class firm.  She goes to parties with rich folks and sells dimes for like hundreds of dollars because she tells her clients that it is really exclusive product.  She even gives it a cute little french name.  She puts her weed in a pretty little package with a bow and she sells loads of it for a 500%+ mark-up!   Market your services properly and you won’t have the problem with clients choosing a new photog over you based on price.

 

[creyes8519]

And NO, I don’t agree the new photographer is working for peanuts, she is getting paid to learn.  I can take pictures of my kids and family all day every.  I actually did one photo shoot for a friend because she honestly could not afford a photographer for her daughter’s Sweet 15.  I tell you…. the session definitely did not live up to the pictures that she’s seen from me before of my kids.  There’s a difference between taking pictures of people you know and doing a professional photo session.  She needs to truly learn from experience.  She needs to be put in positions where she is on an assignment in a room with no fucking light!  She needs to really experience in order to truly learn and become a great photographer!   She needs to be IN BUSINESS to learn how to be IN BUSINESS.  I have seen many photographers go from mediocre to amazing while IN BUSINESS.  And they have been successful.  My own friend has been taking photos for 7 years and she started out just like the OP… just a month into photography and she was in business.  Now her photography compared to 7 years ago is great and she has went through a few price increases in that time.  I am no longer her client because of her prices, but she has many more now so I am certainly not a loss to her.

[IHF]

I completely understand your reasoning and your position.  Now I’m going to give you a peek at the tog’s point of view.

You have to remember custom portrait photography is a luxury.  Why?  Because you are paying someone with an expertise, to give you a beautiful product.  It takes time, money and effort to deliver that product to you.  Consumers save for their portraiture, and they pay for it because they understand the value of it.  Portrait artist prices are not high because they think they are all that, and they need a slap of reality from potential clients “You charge too much!”

When I figure out what I need to charge per session while photographing only part time, just to insure that I make minimum wage after all of my expenses of being in business, I need to charge $200 per session and/or make $200 in print sales per session, and average 2 sessions per week.  This is just to make minimum wage mind you.  This is just my newbee starting point.  I could make more working at McDonalds.

This means I either need to not be full service (no editing/touch ups/CD only/no packaging less time spent with the client etc), and take on a higher volume to accommodate the average to lower income clients, or it means I need to market to them differently so they understand the value of what I do.  The latter seems more feasible to me because it’s important to me to give a finished product and offer full service. but when you have literally thousands of new photographers that don’t understand the value of what they do, or possibly don’t care if they make money or if go in debt shooting because they do it all for their passion and their spouse or their other full time employment supports the family… How do you think I am going to do, regardless of how good I am?

What’s happening is these togs all want to cater to your demographic, and at the same time offer a custom portraiture experience and products.  This is like a walk in only salon that charges only $10.00 a haircut, and gives their customers a full service salon experience.  A shampoo, a blown dry style, coffee, tea, and spends at least an hour or more with you, to ensure you are completely satisfied with your new style and you know how to care for it at home.  It won’t work.  They will lose money, no matter how happy their customers are.  They will be out of business very shortly.  There is a constant cycle of fauxtogs and photogs alike that crop up and disappear with in a couple years, all because they dont understand the business end, and are marketed to so ferociously (there’s more money to be made off of new togs than there is actually being one) while being told exactly what they want to hear, by well meaning strangers, friends, family, and the not so well meaning people that sell to them.  They are constantly told that they can eventually accomplish this impossible feat, no matter their skill level.  Just price yourself according to your skill level, and keep buying and investing in your business and eventually you get there.  As if it all happens by magic

If she wants to be a custom portrait photographer (which is the direction she is pointing towards).  She first needs to learn good photography techniques, then learn editing, develop her style, hone in on her specialty/expertise until she gets reliable consistent results and she needs to charge what she needs to run her business successfully.

If she wants to be a high volume family tog.  She needs to first learn how to accomplish good photography, quickly and efficiently, and reliably SOOC with minimal editing, and then charge what she needs to to make a profit.

 

There really is no middle ground here like we’d all like to think.  With as saturated as this industry is, absolutely EVERY new tog has to learn first before going into business if they want a fighting chance, whatever the business model they use.

[MBChamberlain]

That explains a lot. I think I complete understand your position now. You can’t take criticism. Especially if it is public. Your professor didn’t love the shot you loved, so he must be a snob. I expect someone who charges people money for services as a photographer to actually produce photographs instead of snapshots, so I’m a snob. You have absolutely no concept that a bad review is an opportunity for growth, you’d rather attack the reviewer. Am I right in thinking that if you were in business, you’re the kind of person who would offer a full refund as a bribe to prevent someone from leaving a bad review of you? Am I hitting closer to the mark now?

My specialty was fashion and marketing before I retired. Some people loved my work, some people hated it with a passion. There were people who wouldn’t consider hiring me, and others who would call me first thing if they had a job. I look at every rejection as an opportunity in disguise. If you reacted to your teacher’s instruction like you’ve reacted here, I don’t doubt that they were completely justified in wondering if you’d learned anything from them. I take a lot of flack from certain circles, including the owner of my partner studio, because I’m more than willing to break the rules, but only if I’ve got a good reason before I do it.

When it comes to charging for learning, that is unacceptable. How would you react if someone read a book on being a plumber, bought a wrench, wrote it on the side of their truck and expected you to pay them for the privilege of letting them practice on your toilet? What if it was an electrician? Or a firefighter? Or a doctor? Granted, very few people are going do die from a bad photo, but the principle is the same. Back when I started photography, if you seriously wanted to be a pro, you didn’t go out on your own, you apprenticed with a master. I spent 4 years working for a master photographer, without pay, for the chance to learn from him. Slowly during that time, I started to set up shots and set up the camera, then he’d check everything before he shot the image. Then I started to actually take a couple shots during the shoot. By the end, he’d let me run a shoot now and again. He worked with me, he trained me, he was always honest and harsh at times.

My standards for being a professional aren’t actually all that high. If you shoot portraits, I expect every shot you deliver to be: well lit, in focus, exposed properly, composed well, artistically sound, and emotionally resonant. I’m a little more lenient in wedding and events because there are times you need to include a photo because of the emotional significance, but this is the exception rather than the rule and you don’t stick them in your portfolio. Also to be a professional, you need to be consistent enough that you can produce the same quality work no matter how tired you are, or how bad a day you’re having. If you’re charging, your client deserves to know what they are getting. If your quality is dependent on your mood, how much sleep you’ve gotten, how many cups of coffee you’ve had, or any other external factor, you’re not ready to be a professional.

On price, if you can’t afford a high-level pro, there are plenty of real pros out there starting their businesses that need good photos. Fauxtogs don’t hurt established photographers. We don’t want clients who can’t afford to pay out rates, they expect too much for too little. The people fauxtogs hurt are those who are trying to get a good portfolio together. They pollute the public consciousness by teaching the masses that bad photography is good photography, because the masses don’t know any better. People hire fauxtogs who will give them a disc because the real photographers (who are much better and charging about the same rates) care enough about their clients to ensure they get good prints. So the ignorant clients print their snapshots at walmart and think they got a great deal, and they must bet getting good photos because they hired a “professional.”

Like it or not, photography is a luxury. It is not a right. I have the same problems with someone charging for snapshots and calling themselves a photographer as I would someone charging natural diamond prices for lab created diamonds. It is dishonest. Fauxtographers are the guys on the street outside of a jewelry with 50 knockoff watches in their coat who will sell you a Rollex for 50 bucks. You can buy a $5 watch from them for $50 bucks or you can go inside and buy a $500 watch for $500. You’re saying that is acceptable because it costs to much to buy a Rolex. We’re saying you have the choice between buying a $50 Timex for $50 or a $500 Rolex for $500? Either way you get your money’s worth, so either is fine. All I ask of a watch salesman is that if I pay $50, I get $50 worth of watch.

I ask the same of a photographer, don’t charge unless you’re PRODUCT is worth the client’s money.  I stress product because they are not paying you for your time, they are paying you for your PRODUCT. Even when I charge by the hour, I am charging for the product, not the time. To be successful in any business, you must provide a good product at a fair value. If your product isn’t good enough to net you a good wage, it isn’t your prices that are the problem, it is the product. IHF is only partly right in her talk of pricing structures. You add up your costs, overhead, taxes, and a living wage, compare that to the value of the product you’re wanting to sell, and if the product’s value is higher, you’ve got a chance of making it in business. It is skill and experience on the photographers part plus economic considerations like supply and demand that determines the products value.

Before you reach that point, every hour of work you put in and every shot you take is an investment in your future. As I have said before, I don’t measure someone’s passion by how much they love what they do. There are a lot of things I love to do, but I’m not passionate about them. I love to rock climb, bicycle, and swim. But I’m not passionate enough about any of those things to put in the training required to climb half dome, enter in the Tour de France, or win a gold medal in the butterfly. True greatness will only ever come to those who are willing to toil in obscurity.

For the record, here are Chamberlain’s Three Laws of Photography:

ONE- The rules of photography are simple and finite, and they should not be deviated from.

TWO- You may break rule one if and only if you have a good reason why it will enhance the photo to do so. (“I want to,” “It’s artistic,” and “It’s impossible to do it right,” aren’t acceptable reasons)

THREE- The expectations of the client are equal to the inverse square of the amount charged in relation to the value. I.E. If you charge half the client will have 4 times the expectation. Charge a third and it will be 9 times. Charge nothing and the client’s demands become infinite.

[IHF]

Creyes,

out of these many photographers that you know of that learned the foundations of photography while being in business, how many are in business only selling their photography?  How many sell to photographers?  How many would give the advice or encourage “be in business while you learn the basics”?

Your friend.  Is she a good enough friend that you don’t just get her highlight reel, and you both can talk freely about her business?  How much she makes?  How she would advice a new tog aspiring to go pro?  Mistakes she has made and learned from?

I know of several togs that went into business before becoming a photographer as well.  Minus the ones who make money selling to photographers, They all are out of business, or on their way out.  Only one is still in business and is thriving.  She had to take a hiatus to spend more time on her photography, and when she came back she was full on, with a new business plan that works, and with the skills she needs to insure her business keeps growing.  Only i knew of her financial struggles as she kept her appearances up until the hiatus.  And by just watching/looking it seemed to be that she was doing quite well.  Lots pretend like this and you don’t even know of the struggle. She now  advises anyone who listens “learn first!  Invest the time into being a student first.  Don’t do this the way I did.  Don’t buy into the dream that they are selling.  It doesn’t work like that.”  She went into debt being in business before she was a good photographer.  She bought into what was being sold to her, hook line and sinker.  She almost didn’t make it.  And let me tell you, it would have been so very sad if she hadn’t helped herself by taking time off business and getting back to the basics instead of trying to learn while shooting for hire, because her photography is wonderful.  The thought of her talent being waisted all because she jumped in too quickly and listened to bad advice from both well meaning people and those who sold to her… It breaks my heart when I see it happen.

[IHF]

Most times following the advice that’s harder to hear, is better than listening to advice that makes you feel good about what you are doing.

[creyes8519]

I have never been in the photography business itself so I really can not say how much time it actually takes.  I know paying taxes, gas, equipment, photo time, editing time, etc all need to be factored.  I understand that photographers need to charge 200-300 etc to stay in business.  I get it.  But I just do not understand the opinion that a person needs to spend years of their time and basically offer their services FOR FREE before they can go into business.  I did one photo shoot in my lifetime and it was for free as a favor and that shoot cost me money and time.  I don’t think I can truly LEARN how to be a photographer if I did not have more photo shoots like that because taking pics of my kids and my dog is just totally different.  My pics of my kids are pretty decent… the pics I took of this girl were…. bad.  I think if I did a few more photo shoots like that I could practice more, but again.. that would cost me money and its really unfeasable.  I will admit that I am not close enough with my friend that I’ve discussed her own personal business with her, but I do know she started out with very little practice and I remember her earlier work to be really bad.  But she has since improved and has become very serious about her work.

Anyway, I am going to respectfully disagree with the fact that you need to be rude in order to give criticism.  You could have told the OP, “I suggest you focus more on your photography skills and technique, improve on this and that” instead of basically ordering her to put her business at a halt because honestly… she is not that bad!  She is actually very talented and her birth album was awesome.  I don’t know if either of you have photographed a birth but I’ve given birth a couple of times and the moments the baby is born is very fast….  and she managed to get some really great photos out of it.  Mind you, indoors with a D5100…. which is incredibly complicated because I’m not sure if you’re used to entry-level cameras but there are way less AF points in a D5100 compared to more advanced cameras, they cannot handle High ISOs at all, and in darker rooms the AF is close to impossible to get the shot you want when you want it.

[MBChamberlain]

I agree with you that you don’t need to be rude to give criticism. When a person is open to the criticism and willing to listed, kind and gentle instruction works great. My original response was a hard truth, but it was delivered without sarcasm or rudeness. I complemented her progress so far, offered correction for her misconception of how much she had learned, and extended an offer to help further.

Unfortunately in this situation, she didn’t want to hear that, and in her response she made it clear that her position had been galvanized. I am enough of a student of human behavior to know that if that shell wasn’t cracked it before it had time to harden, it never would be. There was no malice in my response. She had built a defense against criticism, and that was what needed to be broken or it would have encased her and prevented her from growing in the future. I responded with a carefully gauged level of harshness, forcefulness, and yes, sarcasm in order to shatter that shell, but not to harm the person inside it. But in all that, I never rescinded my offer to help.

It seems to have worked. She came back a little shaken, but calm, collected, and ready to learn. And so the teaching can finally begin. It is my hope that now she can move forward and really get out there and learn and become a great photographer, because as you said, she is talented even if she is not yet pro.

I hope this will help you to understand.

Concerning the idea of not charging for services. Let me use another example that are closer to photography perhaps. Cooking.

If you wanted to learn how to cook and had only progressed as far as successfully making prepackaged meals, would it be right for you to market your services as a personal chef so that you could get paid for learning? That is preposterous. You would learn at home, experiment, cook for yourself and your family. It would cost you time, effort, and, yes, a lot of money. It isn’t enough to produce something edible, in order to charge for being a chef, it doesn’t have to be five-star quality, but you have to cook something home-made, nutritious and delicious with enough variety to fill an extended menu. An how would it be for you if you hired someone to cater your kids birthday party, a family gathering, or a wedding if all they could handle was prepackaged food? If you paid them to make home-made pizza for the party and they ordered the pizza from Domino’s put it on a tray and brought it over, marking it up ten times in the process? You’d be appalled wouldn’t you?

This, of course, wouldn’t work in the real world because people are generally good judges of food because they are exposed to it so much good food and the only people who they could get business from are those with very bad palettes. Photography is different. People aren’t exposed to good photography on a daily basis. They are exposed to snapshots, cell phone pics, memes, and the like. They have no view of good photography because they have never been exposed to it. So they, like you, look at work that is better than their own and assume it must be professional. I do not blame the clients for not knowing any better, and I don’t even really blame the photographer that much. Work of this caliber is only good because the bar has been set so low by the mass availability of photography. But those who claim to love and respect photography as an art form must fight to raise the bar or the art will be lost.

To continue with the food analogy, I’m half Italian and I grew up on a farm where my mother and both grandmothers were amazing cooks. It was a very rude awakening indeed the first time I went over to my friend Tom’s house and had his mother’s “cooking.” I was shocked (silently) at how much everyone at the table was enjoying the prepackaged lasagna while I could barely eat the stuff because it tasted of preservatives. After that day I set out to learn to cook. I am no great cook by any stretch of the imagination, but I cook all home-made food and the way people I know talk about my food you’d think I owned a five-star restaurant. I am not foolish enough to believe that I could walk into a restaurant and be a chef, I thank them for their compliments, but I know very well that they only praise my work because they don’t have enough experience with really good food to know that mine is only OK.

[creyes8519]

Like cooking, photography is subjective I guess.  I saw her work and was actually surprised by the advice for her to stop her business because her work truly is not bad at all.  There are a couple of pictures that I could do without, but really it isn’t bad.  And you basically called her a fauxtog which she is not.  I was annoyed with the comments because there are people who post pictures that are far far worse and they don’t get as much criticism as I’ve seen in this particular thread and I just did not understand it.  I think her honesty about how long she’s been in photography maybe stirred the pot I suppose…. anyway, I appreciate this discussion and I will respectfully disagree with much that has been said, but I’m going to move on to another thread lol.

[Author]

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