its america land of the free?

[amber]

yes Freedom!! freedom to do what though? bash people? put people down? hurt peoples dreams, feelings? if so i dont want to be free! everyone is entitled to their own opinion i believe. Though to bash people that are following a dream is wrong. If there is a photographer out there charging thats their own business. If people out there are looking for that type of photography so be it let them go with the inexperienced photographer. I also believe you shouldnt say your a professional when you dont own pro equipment. Im by far a pro. Im a beginner. im proud of how far I have come and i use the money I make to upgrade. I found this site because someone was bashing me. someone i dont know. saying hurtful and untrue things. I hate this site. Though i have seen some hilarious photos it would hurt if those photos were mine when i started out

im done ranting

[JanJan]

I think you were referring to this post – https://youarenotaphotographer.com/forums/topic/have-fun/ where Rachel was bashing you, but it actually backfired on her BIG time, especially when she showed her OWN work. You are light years away and I think she’s just jealous and wants to be like you. Keep shooting! Your work is great for someone who hasn’t done this for a long time. My only critiques are that the pictures on your Facebook cover is a bit overexposed and that it looks like you went too much on the clarity on this picture, because it’s a bit soft (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=481766661876981&set=pb.229987970388186.-2207520000.1366097952&type=3&theater). Don’t let someone like Rachel bring you down.

[Rebble]

Sigh get over it, move on…

you don’t mind saying

“Though i have seen some hilarious photos it would hurt if those photos were mine when i started out”

So you are a hypocrite too? Just so long as your photos aren’t on here there is nothing to worry about 😀

[fstopper89]

Hey I’d be quite mad if someone did what happened to her too. They made up gossip, and then said her photos were bad, when theirs were not even at her level. You don’t know if she was charging people when she just started out and produced crappy photos like what ends up on the main page here. I took some pretty bad portraits when I just started out but I wasn’t charging or advertising.

[JCFindley]

FWIW Bole, most of the people on that thread were actually defending you from the initial attacker…..

Personally, I find the site hilarious and if you want to put yourself on the market as a pro, you should be able to take critique and or even some of what this site does.

The reason the “pros” get irritated is because people see the cheap photographers then expect a disc full of copyright free images for the same price but better quality from them…  Yeah, you are doing fine frankly, but then, your images are not on the main page here. You just had some idiot with an over-inflated  self image of her own work try and make herself feel better with a personal attack on you. And yeah, that would piss me off too….

[amber]

I believe everyone startssomewhere. I’ve definetly not put myself out there as a pro. I’m far far far from a pro. But far away from where I started a yeat anf a half ago. This is a hobby and a passion of mine. If people want to pay for what I provide it’s up to them. Some people don’t have thousands of $$ to pay for a wedding photographer that’s why I’m happy to be there for people thcandor have the money. Maybe one day I’ll bête where I want. 🙂 and thank you browneyesgirl! Thank you for sticking up for the little people. I appreciated that when I seen everyone on here defending me!That’s was awesome!

[dont.care]

I went out of my way to make sure you knew about “Rachel”.. I don’t like people that defame others to try to get an edge. I still am not sure if she is from your area; seems as thought she has some personal interest in smearing you.

As far as I know, this site isn’t about depreciating potential photographers, but rather calling out the ones that skip from opening the camera box packaging and going directly to professional.

What’s even more ironic is that she (rachel) can’t even face what she has done and has not responded to any of this. No dignity, no respect, no shame.. Just a pathetic person

 

 

[IHF]

This site isn’t for everyone, and I understand that, but I know I can sleep at night knowing I am as honest as possible when people ask for my opinion.  I know you are angry, and have every right to be, but don’t misplace that anger, and blame this site for  Rachel’s actions.

I know you did not at all ask for my opinion, and for that I apologize, but when I see someone so blatantly out to try to hurt someone for no apparent reason other than to stroke their already overly inflated ego… Well it gets me going, and like I said I can see your potential and really want you to succeed.  Just know, my opinion, is just my opinion.  My advice, is only just that.  You do what you have to do for you

try not get let this get you down Amber.  Don’t let it mess with your mojo.  Seems to me she is just jealous of what you have achieved in such a short time, and she feels threatened by it somehow.  Or she just doesn’t see like the rest of us do?

and hey! Keep venting here if you need to.  Sure you could suck it up like  Rebble said to do, but I for one see no problem with you being angry for awhile.

[IHF]

“I’ve definetly not put myself out there as a pro”

But you have.  By marketing your services and charging your clients, you have put yourself out there as a pro.

“Some people don’t have thousands of $$ to pay for a wedding photographer that’s why I’m happy to be there for people thcandor have the money”

This is a really nice gesture, but as I said before, you are selling yourself short.  You would make more working part time at mcDonalds, and what you do is worth a lot more than a happy meal.

Pricing isn’t just about what you feel is fair for the customer to pay.  It’s about receiving a fair price for what you provide.  Even hobbyists of any kind price their products/service to make a profit.  You have to figure in what it costs you to do business, fees, taxes, web hosting, equipment maintenance, data back up, printing services, insurance, etc and you also have to figure in your time spent doing business.  Lot’s of variables from tog to tog as far as expenses and time goes, but most togs just starting out in being for hire usually have to charge or sell approx $100 to $200 per portrait session and average at least one gig per week just to try to make the equivalent to minimum wage.  Of course their prices would have to go up from there as their business grows, but minimum wage is the goal for the first couple of years.  Photographers aren’t trying to rip people off by charging $2000 (or more in most cases) per wedding, they are just trying to make a modest living from their chosen profession.  By you and so many others not knowing what the true value is of what they do, and charging so unfairly, it makes it very difficult for those who legitimately want/need to make a living doing what they love and what they have worked so hard to excel at.  Because in turn the consumer also learns there isn’t much value to photography, and they begin to expect cheap prices.

What you do is worth more Amber.  You deserve to make a profit.  You have developed a skill that your clients don’t have, and work hard to develop it further each and every session.

If you are unwilling to rethink your business plan, could you at least explain to people why you can afford to charge so little?  That it’s not a main source of income and that it’s because you aren’t in it to make a profit, that it’s just a hobby for you, and a way to pass the time doing something you enjoy doing?  Maybe a little change in your about to let people know you are not running a legit profitable business?  I swear this is not written in such a way that I am swinging my finger in your face.  It’s just instead of just wishing people had a respect for this profession/photography genre, I like to try to educate them into understanding what that means.  In no way is this a way to start any sort of argument or to make you feel even worse than you already do.

Please take some time to fill this form out with your expenses and what not.  Enter a salary that is equal to minimum wage, and see for yourself what you would have to charge per gig to achieve that goal.  I think if you were to enter in your expenses and time in honestly and accurately you’ll find that I’m not completely full of BS over here

https://nppa.org/calculator

[amber]

I tell all of my clients how long I have been doing this i also tell them I’m a beginner. I chathe so little because I don’t think I am good enough to charge pro rates. That would be a fauxtog by doing that. I am in the process of learning. I’m stick between not being able to charge pro rates because I’m not a pro and I can’t charge nothing because I do make a profit just a small on but that’s ok. Iview this expierence as “school” a learning expierence. The mall can’ tellWalmart “hey we sale that same thing but better quality so if you sell it cheaper people are going to not realize we have better quality things”. No. People that can afford more go to the mall and people that can’t go Walmart lol same thing. And I appreciate all your criticism even though I didn’t ask for it. Kinda been thrown onto this.  And I’m no where near angry at Rachel. I have texted her she saidAshe was very sorry and thought about even giving up being a photographer. I don’t want that for her of she loves doing it. Everyone deserves to do what they want. Yea it does drive me crazy for people to own canon rebels and say they offer port quality portraits and not even know what and aperture is!!! But they will leartiny either a lawsuit or expierence l:)

[IHF]

Everyone who works in this country, is worth minimum wage.  That’s why the law is put into place, and varies from state to state according to cost of living.

Everyone but family photographers evidently…

Im in photography “school” too, but I don’t involve the public.  That’s just something I don’t understand.  Go ahead and try to be a walmart.  One of the hugest corporations in the entire world btw.  One that had a photography studio that charged the approx the same as you do (because they could afford to, and still pay their photographers minimum wage and higher) and even after raising prices, still couldn’t compete with you, and make a profit, and had to close their doors.

I can see that I can’t change your mind, and it’s ok.  You have a LOT of good talented company, right with you.  It makes me sad to see such waisted potential, but it’s clearly none of my business.  So I’ll leave it be.

good luck to you

[amber]

I will get there I’m not trying to charge more currently because I’m not a pro. So what do I do?

[IHF]

It’s a tough situation when there are so many people undervaluing portrait photography, but not impossible.   This is why I shoot for me and my learning process and I don’t shoot for others.  I get encouraged all the time to start charging and go for it, but as soon as I tell them how much I would have to charge per session to leave my part time minimum wage job, the room goes awkwardly silent.
Lets say I charged $100 just to start.  That leaves me with $75 after taxes, but I have to also figure in my other expenses.  I want to provide an album along with digital files for sharing with every session (this is very important to me, that people receive both print and are able to share freely, so there’s no cutting costs there for me).  That leaves me with $35.  I also have to pay for web hosting and file storage, and miscellaneous things, like software, props, backdrops, (the fun stuff) gas, insurance for my equipment, maintenance etc.  Now I’m down to $25 (and thats being really conservative) A session is an hour of shooting and aprox 3 hours of preparing the files for both web and for print, and backing them up, and spending time with my client both sharing the images and helping them decide on prints.  Oops!  I only made $6.25 an hour, and this doesn’t even include the time I spend marketing, blogging, and emailing and learning.  Minimum wage here in my state is $8.25.
Thing is, I don’t want to leave out time spent marketing my business, It’s time that takes me away from my family, just like any job does.  I also need to make enough so that I can afford equipment upgrades, and software upgrades, continuing education, and whatever else might arise.  So I’d have to charge closer to $200 per to make my minimum, be prepared for growth, and be financially able to leave my part time job.
Awkward silence
“How could that be when so and so only charges $50 for a session, and shes really good?!”  and there lies the problem.

To me, it’s kind of black and white.  You either do this for the pure love of it, or you do it for the money.  If the latter, price for profit.  I can’t afford to shoot for others without making money, like so many others seem to be able to do, not that I’m interested.  I’ve already got a lot invested in this hobby of mine, I can’t even imagine how stressed out and in the dumps I would be in your shoes.

right now, as things stand… You are competing with yourself.  You say someday you want to be pro and make a living, but you are teaching your clients not to value what you do.  It will be an uphill battle I’m afraid, especially with so very many others who do and feel the same

[IHF]

An article you might like to read

http://www.mcpactions.com/blog/2009/10/12/how-should-i-price-my-photography-words-of-advice-from-jodie-otte/

[Thom]

IH8Faux: Great article!

BoleJack: In this field, there are some real d-bags. I work in movies and you couldn’t believe the stuff I read online about the projects I work on. I’ve been involved in two…TWO Best Picture winners (“Argo” & “The Hurt Locker”) and countless demanding directors and I STILL get shit for being a hack, or that people question what I do constantly. So my advice, if I may be as bold as to give it, is to keep shooting and learning. Because if people are here criticizing, that means they’re not “out there” doing it. But you are.

A dream stands as strong as the person who is willing to endure the sacrifices.

Best of luck

Thom

[Author]

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