Home Forums Main YANAP Discussion Forum How do you feel?

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  • #6428
    CanonJustin
    Member

    Not trying to sound soft but every once in a while I be looking through the site and feel a little bad for some of the things being said to some of these fauxtogs as they are trying somewhat  ….unless their taking money and clients from me or any worthy real photographer then I’ll show no mercy.

    But when it comes down to it I really feel that sites like this do a service to those who view it, I personally have grown an extremely critical eye to my own work by fear of it ever ending up on a site like this and justly believe that it has help me become a better photographer. I am very careful to only show what I believe is the best work and not ever let bad work with my name on it get out.

    So what I’m really getting at is how do you feel? Are you here just to troll and make yourself feel better or are you also getting something out of this and using it a learning experience to never be considered what you hate?

    #6435
    Loke
    Member

    Photography is a craft and art…being that it is a craft obviously, people should know how to use their cameras and know about the “rules” of photography BUT…art is purely subjective and it’s ok to break the rules……I come here for entertainment but at the same time, I really don’t care what others think about my work as long as my clients are happy and I’m happy… …and even these fauxtographers…if it makes them money more power to them…anyway, people who know quality will pay for it — people who are wanting to save bucks will hire one of these guys…in the end, everyone’s happy! People who think their work is perfect are delusional..you’re always working on your craft and improving (or regressing) for some. That’s why when I want real critiques  I go to digital-photography-school.com or other sites. Those people give you good feedback not just tell you your work sucks..of course there are some of those people here too….but hey….this site is for fun.

    #6440
    Loke
    Member

    btw, you don’t want the same clients that will pay a fauxtographer anyway…those will be the clients from hell..

    #6445
    IHF
    Member

    I expect anyone who charges for a service to be able to provide the service they are selling.  Yes, photography as an art is subjective, but when you are providing a professional service it’s more than just subjective art.  Your work should be technically sound.  You should be able to provide your service consistently and reliably.  Not just depend on people loving the subjects in your photos to get you by.  It’s not right to take advantage of people’s emotions like that.  With that said, I don’t think the togs that come here asking “am I a faux” even realize that they are doing anything wrong.  They either also see a cute or beautiful subject and think it equals great photography just like their clients do, or they blatantly know they don’t know what they are doing and charge anyway “I just won’t charge much, while I’m learning”.  Not knowing this will actually harm their learning process and any future business plans they might have.  Or considering the harm and hurt it could do to others.  I think fauxs most times are victims to fauxtography as well as the client.  There are a few exceptions to this.  Like when it’s all about getting as much clothing off girls as possible, thieves, and people who out right lie and deceive for the mighty dollar.  But in general the whole faux mind set affects  more than just the clients, and it makes me sad.

    I come here for entertainment, but I also like to try to help get through to people that its ok to just be an amateur while you are a student of photography, and that it’s actually a more meaningful, legit , productive, and honest way to go about it.  I can be harsh at times, but I feel you have to be honest and blunt most times so people actually hear what you are trying to say.  I don’t critique anyones photography that I feel is beyond my skill level, and I don’t like the “fauxtogs that should end up on the front page” type threads.  It’s one thing to put up an unmarked photo that cannot be linked back to the faux, and quite another to  post business links here to feed to the lions.  Plus these togs didn’t ask for critique, they don’t care what other togs think, they don’t care or think about how they can improve, so all it will accomplish is heated arguments, embarrassment, and make the poster of the links look like an ass.  Most of the link contributors really shouldn’t be calling anyone a faux anyway.  At least from what I’ve seen. but that’s also all part of the entertainment value.

    oh and I’m here to learn!  Every once in a while we’ll get a pro that really contributes to the critiques, and it’s fabulous.  It’s happening less and less these days, and the linking and bashing happens more often, but when they chime in, I listen

    #6533
    Loke
    Member

    I agree with most of what I hate Fauxtography said , but at the same time the business of photography is 80% marketing and 20% shooting. If you are working for a stock agency or if you are on assignment for fashion,  etc then obviously you will have to be really on top of your game.  The rest is like art…people will think it’s crap or they’ll love it. Of course we all agree that the pictures should be for the most part, technically sound.  However, if the clients are happy I don’t see how that’s taking advantage of someone emotionally. The only ones that I see that seem really bothered by it are the countless photographers on this forum.  Obviously the clients choose them because well they were probably cheap, #2 they probably did like what they saw…as I said, subjective.  I know it’s frustrating to see but If you are a quality photographer you will charge prices in accordance to your skill and experience and you will not be catering to the same audience.  Do you really think people like Ming Thein or Peter Lik will be working for the same clients? They will not feel threatened at all by those fauxtogs. I feel bad for them, but eventually they will either A. Get better b. Go out of business.

    #6535
    Loke
    Member

    I use Peter Lik as an example because there are fauxtographer landscape artists as well.

    #6539
    IHF
    Member

    Just some things to think about:

    What if the client isn’t happy but doesn’t have it in them to say they aren’t happy?  I know I was really uncomfortable when my family got taken by a faux.  It’s kind of embarrassing, and you just want it to go away.  You know?  It’s almost like when someone gets taken by fraud and fell for a fast one.  The police have a hard time getting people to come forward.  I know that’s almost like comparing apples to oranges, but that feeling is still the same “I made a stupid mistake”.  You don’t want confrontation, and you just, want the bad feelings to go away.  So you just chose not to say anything.  and even though they weren’t good photographs, they were truly wanted just the same, and we bought them.  or what if the tog is a good friend’s niece or something, and they were recommended to you?  Oh man!  That would be the worst.  and I’m sure it happens a lot more than what people would like to think.  Sure some fauxs have die hard fans, I’ll agree with you there, but I just wanted to give a different perspective.

    Now lets look at this statement a different way “If you are a quality photographer you will charge prices in accordance to your skill and experience and you will not be catering to the same audience”.

    O.K. here’s this average Joe family tog, you know the guy.  He’s been shooting his whole life.  He covers weddings, Bar Mitzvahs, Graduation photos, family portraits, and even shoots Santa visits at Christmas time.  He can make any lighting situation work, and knows his equipment like the back of his hand.  He prices for the average family and makes a living and supports his family with his income.  Now a whole bunch of fauxs come into the picture and they are after the same market, only they don’t know jack about business, and how to price for profit isn’t even in their vocabulary, let alone being legit and dealing with the costs that come with working a legit business.  Yes, Joe is talented, and his photographs by far outshine all the fauxs in the area, but… price starts winning, and he sees a dip in his income.  He has two choices, step up his game offer more and raise prices to offset, and take his chances that the price increase he had to employ doesn’t make matters worse, or wait and see if people start to wake up to the fact that fauxs dont offer the same service or product he does, even though they claim they do, and they make it feel like they do and their children are cute, and “oh look at that smile!  I can see past that she’s yellow in this picture, or green or blue”.  So to me when you say Fauxs don’t effect “real” togs… well not all of them, but… I feel for the family tog.  I feel for new to the business family togs as well.  The ones that DID think things through.  The ones that are really talented, and took the time to learn and invest in themselves.  They TOO have to compete with fauxs and struggle to find their spot in the scheme of things.  I know I’m surrounded by them, and there’s no way I’d make it, even though I know my photography is by far better.  There’s no way I could put up with “but so and so only charges such and such” and constantly justifying my minimum wage starting out prices while the fauxs shoot for an equivalent to dollar an hour.  I can’t afford to be in business like they are, we already have too much debt, and my photography is at least worth minimum wage.

    and price has a lot more to it than just charging according to skill and experience.  If that were the case average Joe family togs would charge thousands, because they rock it!!

    I don’t think there is such a thing as a faux artist.  Landscape photography is not a service.  People feel no personal obligation to buy, they only buy if they love the photograph, not because they love the subject that is in it, like in portrait and event photography.  People aren’t going to buy a fuzzy crappy photo of a bridge or mountain range they love.  Nope, they will look for a spectacular photo of that bridge or mountain.  Or at the very least settle for a technically sound one that’s focused properly, good color, good comp, good light, proper exposure and so on.  Maybe they won’t know why it works better than the crappy fuzzy one, but they will be able to see it, because they are not personally invested and looking at themselves or their loved ones.

    Emotions ARE being taken advantage of, whether knowingly or not

    #6568
    fstopper89
    Member

    Perfectly said, IHF! That is where my frustrations come in… being relatively new, yet I have invested schooling, time, and money on equipment, it’s hard to really break into the market that sees the value.

    #6580
    Loke
    Member

    I know what you’re saying and I can relate…but that’s the risk you take when you enter the photography business and that’s why you will not find full-time photographers anymore. I live in SoCal where there are thousands of photographers, in a highly competitive marketplace, you have to stand out. Unfortunately, with the advent of digital photography it became much easier for everyone and their mother  to join so that is why it’s no longer profitable to just do photography as a business….My background consists of  a multimedia design diploma from an art school with over 14 years of experience freelancing and working in-house as a graphic and web designer….. I took up photography about 7 years ago  well because I became a parent (why lots of mama togs) . I knew I had to diversify because I know that you can’t just depend on photography as your sole income. I started as a hobby….like many of these guys do…but I knew off the bat that this would be an added service rather than the only service……What I’m saying is, you shouldn’t relegate yourself to the same level as these faux togs which tend to be all over the place on craigslist. Brides especially, are fickle I know because I had a hard time choosing — but as they say you get what you pay for…that’s business not just photography….it’s frustrating when they undercut and charge low….that’s also the problem with stock photography (why you have microstock sites ruining many a career)…photography will never be the same…so my point is, if you offer something that nobody else can then you’re at an advantage. These guys, if they run their businesses poorly they will go out quickly. It’ll get worse too as mobile phones become more advanced, and instagram is the norm now. It is what it is unfortunately. Cameras are also a lot cheaper now, and if you go to Costco I see many a Nikon with bag, telezoom lens, all packaged in one!  I get what you’re saying but photography is a tough tough business.

    #6607
    CoastalTog
    Member

    If they have a FB page and an over sized logo on crappy work, then I don’t feel bad.  They’re putting themselves out there by claiming more than being a casual hobbyist   There’s plenty of aspiring photographers who are practicing and practicing without trying to pass themselves off as a pro with a Canon Rebel.

    #7140
    IHF
    Member

    I could be wrong, but I think the whole average family tog genre is going to become DIY.  I mean it doesn’t take much to learn the exposure triangle and a few basics, and use them Proficiently.  It’s not rocket science.  You just need the interest in taking better photos.  Its already happening.  how many togs have clients who are now togs.  lol its like a shoot me and ill shoot you club out there.  There will be a place for custom portraiture, specialized portraiture, and more high end services, but you will have to bring a heck of a lot more than a girl with a camera,  a knack for using actions and collecting ideas on Pinterest Regardless of your technical ability.  A WHOLE lot more.  It won’t be a place/market for photographers that follow, only the togs that can play the game with their own creativity will end up rising to the top.  The proficient average family tog will become everyone with a camera, so if that’s all you got, you better say some prayers.

    its a great time for photography, but even more difficult than ever before to make a living from it.  Kudos to all of you who are trying though

    #7141
    IHF
    Member

    Ugh I hate being on my tablet.  The typos!! Ahhhhh lol

    #7213
    stef
    Moderator

    So what I’m really getting at is how do you feel? Are you here just to troll and make yourself feel better or are you also getting something out of this and using it a learning experience to never be considered what you hate?

    I’m not sure I’m here to do either. I expect I will learn something… although I’m probably here more to teach than anything else. That’s not why I came here, but that’s what I seem to be doing.

    I came here to gawk at the pictures on the front page. Most of them are worthy of being there, but many are not imo — there have been several images posted that were intentional. Some were intentionally bad and humorous, some were obviously silly in other ways, but none of those belonged on the front page. There’s a difference between simply not liking someone’s sense of art, and laughing at a catastrophe of multiple skill failures. I’m here for that last part.

    #7222

    So what I’m really getting at is how do you feel? Are you here just to troll and make yourself feel better or are you also getting something out of this and using it a learning experience to never be considered what you hate?

    Unlike Stef, I’m here to do both, but also to pass along useful information when I think it might be helpful.  I certainly came here to gawk at the front page.  Like Stef, I think some are truly worthy and some not so much, or not at all.  My main web gallery has something close to 3,000 photos.  A couple could make the front page here if landscapes/cityscapes were considered, like the slow exposure I took while the car I was riding in was going over railway tracks, or the slow exposure taken through the upper deck front window of a bus going through a tunnel, just when the bus hit a bump.  I thought the effects were kinda cool, so I included them.  Anyone looking at them without reading the descriptions would definitely think “What the heck!”

    There has been discussion about including links being good or bad.  I think it is more fair to include the links because it provides an opportunity to see more photos and decide for yourself if the general quality of work is poor or if the photo being ridiculed is an anomaly.

    The greatest lessons so far are that some people will pay money for photos I would be embarrassed to display, and that you are judged by your worst photo.

    #7261
    JanJan
    Member

    Just like the previous posts above, I am mostly here to gawk at the photos that made it on the first page and mostly shake my head in disbelief that people actually paid for them. As for my own personal photography growth, I somewhat use this website as a learning experience.

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