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  • #7056
    fstopper89
    Member

    If you are wondering, I also participate in discussions on other photography-oriented sites, not just this one. Winter is my off period, and I have another job. At this time I cannot feasibly make a living off of photography, but plan to hopefully someday, but as we all know this is not an instant get-rich-quick scheme. Unlike these fauxtographers I have taken the constructive criticism to heart. There have been a few trolls on these forums who flat-out told me “your work sucks.” They didn’t offer any sort of reason. If they had said my photos were underexposed, out-of-focus, noisy, or I had trees growing out of peoples’ heads, and pointed out these things, I would have taken them seriously. But they didn’t. There have only been about 2-3 people who have said that, including the guy I called out for openly stealing work and posting it on his site as “edits.” I’m no perfect photographer but I’m well aware my work does not suck.

    #7057
    seth
    Member

    actually, I believe what YANAP does here can be largely considered Fair Use.  Probably 90% of the photos are screen shots taken from Facebook and contain low-res images which are posted for the purpose of critique or even parody.

    It’s like using the front cover of a book or DVD case in order to review that book or movie.

    They also don’t just blur out watermark, they are blurring out anything that’s identifying, names and company page names, etc.  While blurring the watermark is probably a problem, I believe they do it in order to keep people here from just going over there and trashing people on their pages… which, as you see, seems to happen from time to time when a link is posted.

    Copyright infringement for posting screenshots, I don’t believe so; copyright infringement for removing/blurring watermarks, probably.

    #7058
    FauxFighters
    Member

    Guess what, I do IT work as well, and design/build/repair computers on the side.  That said, I can easily critique other local computers companies work, whether its a crappy network setup they did at a business, ridiculous way they hung a projector for a boardroom AV install, etc. and I can discuss that with other people like myself who are AV professionals and both learn whose work to avoid, and find ways to make our own work better at the same time.  Any type of business you do, when you are with others of the same profession, you naturally discuss the pitfalls and follies, as well as successes of that business and others who are engaged in it.  The difference is, 99% of us on here aren’t going to their site and belittling them in front of their clients.  Again, if you don’t have a thick skin and can’t accept that people will not like your work, find something else to do.  This isn’t elementary school and everybody doesn’t get a participation trophy.

    #7059
    FauxRealz
    Member

    Criticism is fine, I was just pointing out that it’s not being used objectively or consistantly, which discredits the one doing the critique. I guess when people THINK they are completely anonymous posting here, they don’t feel that being logical or balanced is all that important.  That’s my 2 cents, I’m going to delete my account here and get on with my business, I hope that making fun of people who aren’t as amazingly skilled brings you thousands and thousands of rich customers.

    #7060
    FauxFighters
    Member

    Its an open forum, so its quite hard to make everybody have the exact same objectivity and consistency.  Sorry, but that is the nature of the beast.  Anybody can share, regardless of their ability or lack thereof.  Thanks for your contribution and have fun building computers and thinking you are better than everybody that said your friend made a bad decision in posting subpar photos online.

    #7061

    FauxRealz,

    My bigger point, and the one that I REALLY REALLY hope you have a good answer for is this:  Several times people have been called out for using images that are not their own, and rightfully so.  So…  what about the photos on your front page?  Do you have permission to use them?  Do you believe that cutting out or painting over their watermark makes it okay?  I just want to see the explanation as to why it’s okay for you to steal from others for your main page and then trash people for stealing.  Should be a good load of BS!

    Copyright is governed by legislation which varies from country to country but is relatively consistent.  Copyright does not say you cannot use a document or a photo, it says you cannot use a document or a photo for certain things.  Or if you prefer, it says there are uses for which you need permission and uses for which you do not.  Both Canadian and US copyright legislation is on-line so you can go and look up the specifics for yourself, or you can pay a lawyer to look them up for you and deduct the lawyer fees from your corporate income for tax purposes.  Actually, if you have read all the posts here, you have already seen parts of the legislation, which begs the question why are you asking about this.  The high level view is that copyright prevents you from taking someone else’s text or picture and using it to make money.  Copyright legislation permits you to copy some text or a representative picture to be included in a number of uses that do not directly generate money.

    Basically, if you are running a photography business and you misappropriate someone else’s work and display it to promote your business, you are in conflict with copyright legislation.  I suspect it is those cases you are referring to when you say someone was called out.

    If you take the same photo and put it on this page saying “Ha, ha, look at how terrible this is, the pose is poor, the colour is off” you are at least within the spirit of “fair use”, the details may take some additional sorting out.  The Canadian version wants you to indicate where you got the photo from, the US version does not seem to require that.   Perhaps the Canadian version did not think about a site like this.    If my work was consistently worthy of the front page here, I would prefer not to have a link or identifying text so people could refer back to my gallery.

    I hope this adequately addresses your question.

    Disclaimers:

    1) Beyond having created an account, spending some time here, and posting, I have no affiliation with this site.

    2) None of the above is a legal opinion.  Before acting on anything expressed here, you should seek legal council, knowledgeable about the relevant jurisdiction.

    #7064
    cmra_grl11
    Member

    how do you edit a post you have made?

     

    #7066
    Mend
    Member

    more “pros” should read this lol http://improvephotography.com/1521/20-tips-for-starting-a-portrait-photography-business/

    #7069
    jenna504
    Member

    Here is my 2 cents. Take it for what it is worth.

    I think that this field in general has become so jaded with people who are afraid of seeing others succeed.  Whenever we produce a photograph or any other type of “art” we put our heart into it. Having people viewing our work is like putting our soul on the line to be judged. Art cannot be viewed objectively. What is aesthetically pleasing to one person may not be to another.  Please remember that we do this to convey emotion and capture memories. I am certainly not saying that technical aspects should be neglected, but you people seem to be forgetting the goal of photography: TO CREATE ART WHICH IS PLEASING TO THE CLIENT/YOURSELF.

    You all say that inexperienced photographers (fauxtographers) are ruining the entire field of photography??? That is the saddest excuse that I have ever heard. Do bargain stores ruin the business of designer boutiques? Should an inexperienced hairdresser not be allowed to practice her skill? BTW hair stylists who are in school do charge for their services. Is that wrong as well??? No it is not and I highly doubt any of you will find your nearest vocational school tomorrow to protest on the travesty of inexperienced stylists charging. So why do you do it here?  Perhaps because here you can hide behind anonymity. It is easy to bully people whenever you don’t have to look them in the eye.  It is simple to “argue” with someone on a forum because you can log off and never give a second thought to the person’s day that you just ruined.  Do I think that some of these inexperienced photographers need to work hard to improve…of course, but we can all improve.  And if you feel strongly that these photographers are deserving of the constructive criticism that they did not ask for, then it is your right to say whatever things that them that you want regardless of how nasty those things may be.  Please keep in mind however, that you are not only hurting the photographer, but also the subjects in the pictures.  Who any of you be ok with seeing strangers pic apart your family photos? How would you like pictures of your children to be shredded apart by a group of bitter strangers? I think that you should think about how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

    #7070

    Jenna504, I don’t know where you live but here, discount stores have taken a toll on other merchants.  Anecdotal evidence suggests the photography market is saturated by a lot of substandard photographers who are trying to compete on the basis of price.  A second observation is that many customers either cannot determine or do not care about image quality.  Even well established photographers are complaining that business is down and are telling stories about losing business because some customer’s family member just got a new camera, so now that person can handle their photographic needs.

    I don’t have a problem with a hair stylist school, a dental school, or any other school offering reduced rate services.  In some cases that can be very good value and the customer is aware the work will be done by students, with the expectation that they will be supervised.

    I do have a problem with services offered professionally but delivered at a substandard level.  I have the same problem regardless of the service being plumbing, electrical, automotive, carpentry, photography, or some other service.

    Marketplace on CBC have been exposing poor quality pool repair companies, poor quality garage door repair firms, and misleading product labelling during the past couple of months.  They put the under performing companies on national television.  The businesses that are commented on here are not held up in front of nearly as many people but perhaps they should be.

    #7071
    wtf
    Member
    #7073
    jenna504
    Member

    @Camera Clicker your point is valid and accurate. However we live in a free market society, which means that the economic market is defined by free competition.  The economic system in this country is founded on the basis of capitalism, an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.  And I also understand that it is the right of consumers, whether they be current or potential clients to state opinions based on the products.

    I have read a lot of your critiques.  I have noticed that you and “I Hate Fauxtography” give intelligent feedback based on technical knowledge of photography and business. I guess I should have been more specific with exactly who I was speaking to in my comment. I apologize.

    @Brown Eyed Girl…you seem to talk a lot. You seem to make a lot of excuses for yourself. You also seem to take things a bit too far when it comes to reaching out to strangers. Perhaps unsolicited advice is an annoyance. I have looked at your work. There is vast room for improvement, so how would you feel if you were sitting at home and all of a sudden received 50 new notifications telling you what a “joke” you are?  You have stated multiple times on this forum that you are not a professional photographer, but you also stated that you were going to teach a photography class. Are you a certified teacher? I doubt it since you state that you did not finish college due to financial restraints. You also have photos displayed in your portfolio that have most of the mistakes ridiculed on this site. I don’t understand how someone with that much room for improvement could be judgmental of others.  You stated that when you started out you were “bad” but only shot for friends and only charged them what you were worth at the time.  How dare you? And I am sure you will type a long winded rebuttal and say that this is all rubbish so allow me to tell you that I have screenshots from this website and your own to prove everything that I just said.

    #7075
    mykelhelene
    Member

    I have to agree with Jenna on this one. I basically have been lurking these forums for a long time and almost on every thread I see BrownEyedGirl belittling someone, or posting a link of a fauxtog, even when it’s not necessary and when people don’t ask for links (ex. ‘see, like this persons photo -insert link here-). I understand wanting to look at others peoples works and picking out what you wouldn’t have done or would have done, but sometimes you seem to take it a little far. You don’t ALWAYS have to point out a fauxtog as an example for what someone does wrong. You can simply explain it. And Jenna has a point about the classes, you claim to be a ‘semi-pro’ (which doesn’t really exist, you’re either professional, or you’re not) but yet you say you’re giving classes and need help and tips. If you need help and tips, should you be giving classes? I’m starting out as a professional, and I will rep that I am a professional because that is what my mentor taught me. Once you start accepting money for photoshoots, that technically makes you a professional. So either represent that you are a professional, and act professional, or act like a hobbyist.

    On the previous page you state that you edited someone elses pictures to show what they COULD have done to make them ‘better’. But what it looks like to me is you threw an action on there and straightened an image. That to me in general isn’t something that anyone should do. I would never take an image and say to a potential client ‘Oh here’s the crappy pictures blahblah took of you, I edited them and made them better, cheers!’. Leave it alone, let the fauxtogs learn on their own, and try not to make yourself look pompous. People only change for themselves, and honestly if a ‘fauxtog’ (essentially a beginner photographer who is getting ahead of themselves) cannot change and get better, then thats FINE with me.

    #7076
    fstopper89
    Member

    @Jenna, I guess you failed to find all my posts with highly-educated constructive criticism with completely valid points. Though I did not finish college, I have taken several courses that directly relate to the photography field (photography, graphics, computer applications, art, business). And I have job experience working as a photographer’s assistant.

    If people have the issue with me calling myself semi-pro, the better explanation would then be professional who does it part-time right now. Happy with that? I think that horse is dead anyway. There were other forum discussions regarding pro, semi-pro, amateur, etc.

    Never stated that I was “bad” when I started out, I said I didn’t have the experience for a particular area and explained that to the people (friends) who knew my skill level at the time. Was I out there advertising myself as a professional photographer and delivering sub-par work? No.

    And I do not have to be a certified teacher to teach a weekend workshop on an area of knowledge and experience. Just so you know. I’m not going into a high school and teaching a semester class on photography.

    Looks like someone has become obsessed with me… lol. Saving screenshots. Must not have much else to do?

    If you really did look at these threads @myk, then you’d obviously see others are posting links to fauxtographers. Hello! And I was not the one posting links to people I had personal issues with like a few people were here, when it was completely unfounded (like, a small handful of not-so-great photos).

    And clearly, you did NOT read what I actually asked for as far as “tips” for the class I’m teaching. I am unfamiliar with the Nikon line of camera bodies, so I wanted to get a consumer’s list of Nikon cameras, so that if people in the class shoot Nikon, I’ll be able to tell them what type of quality they might expect from that particular camera. I then compared the lists others gave me to the lists on other websites.

    As for the re-edits I did, actually, (looks like you again didn’t actually read the post) my good friend (who originally wanted me to take her engagement photos) came over to show me the photos and said she wasn’t very happy with a lot of them, and wanted to see if I could do anything to them. I told her I could not actually give her any edits I did because that is a copyright violation, but I could show her how I edit, which I did. I re-edited a few of the images. And seriously, I didn’t just “throw and action” on them. There’s quite a bit more to editing than that, you should know that if you’re really a photographer right? Obviously, the original image gave me not much to work with. I would have shot it differently. I would not go show those to the photographer who took them.

    Oh, and when I post a link, I give the reasons for why they are a fauxtographer. I don’t just say “ew their work sucks!”

    Ridiculous blanket statements as well as false statements really make me shake my head at times.

    #7077
    mykelhelene
    Member

     

    I have read them, and i’m sorry that I didn’t divulge into every little statement that you said/posted. But this is coming from an outside perspective, instead of getting defensive maybe you should take note. If people are noticing this about you (and i’m talking about multiple random people) maybe you are doing something? In all honesty every time i’ve read something you’ve written on here it comes across as pompous.

    Looks like someone has become obsessed with me… lol. Saving screenshots. Must not have much else to do?

    I’m not trying to sound rude, but I’m being honest. I’m sorry that I’m offending you. I have seen other people post links, you’re right! But not to the extent you have. Maybe you are one of those photographers who just become very in-depth in online communities, but I couldn’t help to notice this all about you. You’re telling me that you re-edited the photos anyways, even though it is copyright infringement and even though ‘they don’t give you much to work with’. You just edited them for fun then right? And then posted them on this website.. as proof that you could, i’m sorry, up the brightness, sharpen and then throw on an action.

    There’s quite a bit more to editing than that, you should know that if you’re really a photographer right?

    It’s funny, the fact that you react and sort of post minor jabs.

    Of course, I do know that! But what I see here is an action. If it is an action thats great! And if it isn’t that’s even better! But the bottom line isn’t really whether it’s an action or not, it’s how you put yourself out on these forums.  Please don’t put words in my mouth, I never said you said ‘ew their work sucks’. I’m just saying, maybe you should lay off the YANAP forum and go take some pictures.

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