Do I photograph for this fauxtographer?

[Dinkydonkeydo]

Basically there’s an equine/event photographer that has put out an advert asking for photography help at an upcoming horse show. I’ve enquired about it and she has said that it is paid on commission, and that for every photo of mine sold, I will get 50% and she will get 50%. Now this would be my first event so I’m not ooooverly fussed about the payment, I’m more worried about associating myself with this company. They get A LOT of business, and I just can’t work out how. They are awful. I know I’m not a fully fledged professional, but in my opinion I am a million times better than them. Here is are a few examples of their work:

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/942742_603631349676633_427517329_n.jpg?oh=05b5c731640e71f688196142d1875225&oe=541F816F

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/1979592_723988530974247_323544322_n.jpg

 

Now here are a few examples of mine:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t1.0-9/10176203_405455299596184_8190827996517968563_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10419990_433191306822583_5003791004633521059_n.jpg

Obviously excuse the crappy facebook quality, I’m in the process of having a website built. I don’t think the other photographer can use this excuse for their photos though as their website photos are just as awful… :L

So back to the question, do I work for this person at this show or not? The pros are that I would gain experience and get my photos out there. The cons are that I would be associated with this company… Who I’m hoping don’t go on this website!

Thanks in advance 🙂

[cameraclicker]

How does that phrase go?  Oh, yeah.  “It’s hard to soar like an eagle when you are surrounded by turkeys!”

My experience with wild turkeys has been that they are pretty smart birds and can fly quite well.

The first photo you showed us needs contrast, and it would be nice if it showed more of the rider’s face.  The pole growing out of the rider’s shoulder is odd!  And, there is something strange about the area just behind the horse’s left front leg.  I have to agree with you that the photo is less than fabulous.

The second photo is worse than the first!

If your photo of the horse’s eye were in a competition, I would give it serious consideration.  Horses don’t pay for photographs, riders and owners do.  It is a photo an owner with an artistic bent might like.  Other owners may say it does not show enough of the horse.

Your last photo would be better if the lens were a little wider, or you were a little further back, so all of the horse was included in the frame.  The rider’s face seems a little soft, which could be the platform, the shutter speed, lighting, post processing, or focus set on the horse instead of the rider.  It would be better without all those faces along the fence.

Look around when you are at the track, rodeo, exhibition, etc.  A lot of the framed photos look just like the first photo you put up, except production values are better.  It is just a record shot of the whole horse, with or without rider, and a bit of the environment to give context.  Make sure you get some shots like that, they are obviously popular.  If the rider might purchase, make sure you get some flattering shots of the rider, too.

So, back to the question, do you work for this person at this show, or not?  Why not.  It may be an opportunity to learn some of the business side, and with a little attention to detail, and an understanding of what the customers want, you should have no trouble providing photos that sell.

[Dinkydonkeydo]

Thank you for your reply. 🙂 I agree that the close up eye shot wouldn’t be what people at shows would want, I wouldn’t do that at shows. 🙂 I’m still debating whether to go or not. I mean obviously they are a better business person than me, otherwise it would be me getting the work and not them. I suffer from crippling shyness and self doubt with my photography, of which my businessman boyfriend is trying to snap me out of, so this could be just what I need. 🙂 And what I also figure is I cannot possibly be any worse than them even if it is my first proper event, so I don’t have to feel quite so pressurised. 🙂 Thank you 🙂

[nairbynairb]

I say do it… You aren’t going to become a worse photographer for it.
Just make sure that the fauxtog doesn’t rub off bad habits on you.

I don’t think anyone should be paying either of you for shots at the points you’re at though.

[Trainwreck]

Hi Ab (sorry, I couldn’t count all the “i’s”)!

I know you didn’t ask for a review per se. But to be honest here I’m not seeing the “million times better than them”. And while you didn’t ask per se you did put up your work and theirs for comparison.

In addition to Cclicker’s comments you have a white balance issue with your horse/rider shot (color cast). Also a lighting problem, which you could solve in post but neglected. There are several things you could have done to help mitigate the busy, distracting background and didn’t. One thing I noticed as compared to your prospective employer is that your background is at least showing a bit of blur and your horizon is at least level. Your prospective employer seems to have a permanent port list! The unfortunate framing is very subpar and indicative of a beginner who is not watching the entire frame.

The horse eye shot seems to be relatively sound technically but I don’t agree with it compositionally. Since that is a matter of personal choice I won’t comment further on that unless further asked!

If I had shot your horse and rider shot during the day’s shoot it would have never made it out the door due to the framing alone. In fact, it wouldn’t have made it through the first round select and would have found the trash bin toute suite if not PDQ. If that were good the rest could be addressed in post and made a decent shot but it seems you are lacking the skills at this particular point to know how that could be done or to even recognize that it should be done.

Ab, I’m sorry if this sounds harsh. Not really my usual style. But you started this post with both barrels blazing and if you state that you are a “million times better than them” and that “I don’t think the other photographer can use this excuse for their photos though as their website photos are just as awful…” and further that “The cons are that I would be associated with this company… Who I’m hoping don’t go on this website…” I’d say you damn well better be ready to back that up. Photographically you can’t and if you could you wouldn’t be here asking whether you should shoot for them or not. How does that phrase go? Oh yeah. People who live in glass houses…

As for the gig? My advice would be to take it. Especially if you are suffering from terminal shyness and self-doubt. If you are going to aspire to one day be a working photographer you are going to have to deal with people. So if you don’t start now then when?

Plus it looks like an opportunity for a fun day shooting some cool action. You might even make a few bucks to boot.

[Bill]

I would say for the experience, take the gig.

There is an old saying that goes, “A closed mind is like a closed book, just a block of wood.”

Without being too philosophical, once you stop learning things the sooner you become ignorant.  Though Trainwreck pointed out that there really is not much to compare your photography skills to the one who is looking for help.  With the only 2 photos to go by, yes, yours are better overall, from what is given to us.

I have gone on photo shoots with other photographers that seemed to be more experienced then myself, but then after seeing their final results, I was really disappointed.  Most of us are biased to our own photos, but always trying to seek approval and critique from others, but that the nature of the game.  It’s the same in a lot is businesses.

Even if their photography skills are lacking and yours are more superior, you may find out that they are a much better business person then they are photographer.  Running a business of any type does has it advantages and of course just as many disadvantages, if not more.  With that being said, you may learn a thing or 2 about getting yourself out there and getting gigs like that of your own.

I say run with the gig, besides, they are probably going to watermark the photos with their name since you are going to be working under them as contracted help, if anything, it will help boost their moral and reputation if your photos turn out to be better.  If it’s not too late, check the finer details of the use of the photos (rights) just in case they decide to use your photos as advertising to promote themselves.  It’s not unlike any faux to use someone else’s photos for their promotion, just sayin’.

[emf]

I agree with everyone else. I would do it, what do you have to lose? If you only learn ‘what not to do’ it will still be quite valuable. There are other things besides taking a good photograph to running a successful photography business – such as business skills, confidence, the way the tog deals and reacts with clients etc. It is all important to learn.

I’m in the same boat with you, just trying to start out, build a portfolio, shooting for free etc. A few months back, I had an awful session with my friend, I had no clue how to direct or pose her at all – other than say ‘smile’! I had great help from a thread on here about it and found a few videos on you tube too. There is one particular woman who I have watched a lot of her stuff simply because I really like the way she interacts with her clients and it has been really helpful to me. I’m actually not too interested in her work, as I’m learning other things from watching her videos, how to pose, get the client to relax, direct etc.

So my point is really you may well learn other things from working with this tog. She must be doing something right and/or have a good business sense, as she is more established. Good luck.

[emf]

Thank you for your reply.  I agree that the close up eye shot wouldn’t be what people at shows would want, I wouldn’t do that at shows.  I’m still debating whether to go or not. I mean obviously they are a better business person than me, otherwise it would be me getting the work and not them. I suffer from crippling shyness and self doubt with my photography, of which my businessman boyfriend is trying to snap me out of, so this could be just what I need. And what I also figure is I cannot possibly be any worse than them even if it is my first proper event, so I don’t have to feel quite so pressurised.  Thank you

I just wanted to add, I’m not extoverted at all, I’ve been doing free shoots for a while and in the first one with people I didn’t know (a friends daughter and her husband), at the beginning,  my hands were literally shaking and shaking the camera lol! I had to calm myself down otherwise nothing would have been in focus! 🙂

I’m finding free shoots, learning how to interact and pose ‘clients’, a really big help in boosting my confidence as well as skill level and actually really enjoyable too.

[fstopper89]

I almost would say no, don’t do it, because if you are doing this as a work-for-hire gig, the fauxtographer will get the copyright to the photos you take for them, and may or may not let you even use them in your portfolio (depending on if there is a contract, which there should be, and what the terms are). How this person even got this gig is beyond me I guess. Your photos are better, though not amazing, but definitely better considering their awful work. If you can use the photos in your portfolio when all is said and done it may be beneficial, but if this fauxtographer is suddenly going to get lots of business based on the photos YOU shot for them, people are not going to get what they expect.

I 2nd shoot weddings here and there. I also did two on my own and one that I hired a 2nd shooter for. As for the ones I 2nd shoot, the photographer owns the copyright. They have allowed me to use the images in my portfolio after the couple received the photos, with proper copyright given and a statement that I took the photo and used it with permission. Pretty typical for a work-for-hire arrangement. It’s not a requirement for the hiring photographer to allow the 2nd shooter use of the images, but sure is a nice courtesy. That being said, I would never 2nd shoot for a fauxtographer. It would just make them look good and get them business based on my work. The photographers I have shot for have more experience with weddings than I do however I have the same skill level/similar results/similar shooting style so it all kind of blends in in the end. The one I just recently shot for hired me with a week’s notice when his usual assistant had a health issue. He was so impressed with my work and even commented that a lot of my photos were better than his. He does really nice work so that was a huge compliment to me, and from seeing some of his first dance photos compared to mine, I think mine were better. I also threw in some pose ideas he never tried that turned out amazing. Not tooting my own horn, but I think having a good working relationship with other photographers is always a good thing, but I don’t think it’ll be possible for you to ever have a working relationship with a fauxtographer. When you can each benefit from each other equally it’s a good thing.

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